Ok, everyone please- take a good look at this.
This. Look at it.

This is WHY we can’t have nice things.


neaner neaner

Personally, I’d rather they didn’t have jets at all - they don’t much fit into the tiny space of A3 anyway (as has been mentioned numerous times). Drones, VTOLs, and helos are a good match for both the gameplay and the map. I’d love it if they did another helo DLC…or VTOL or drones. The jets seemed like a bad idea before, during, and now after implementation.

Yeah, what we need are orbital platform for the ION Strike!


I think this is a little too far in the other direction. They have their role, you just have to accept that authenticity comes from game play, not systems.

That one good usage I mentioned? It was magical. I’d been invited to a pick up game with a friend and a couple of his mates. Friend was flying an F/A-18E loaded with JDAM and Paveway, one of his mates was acting as JTAC. From a good observational position, he was able to over-watch our advance. When we took fire, we’d scurry to cover, start suppressing the threat vector, and suddenly a Rhino screams overhead and a GBU-38 lands astride the enemy troops. Problem solved, advance resumed.

Go watch Shack Tac, especially the videos they were turning out around 2013. There was a scenario they used to run where it was overwhelmed US infantry falling back from a Russian mechanized assault. Throughout US air support in the form of OH-6s, AH-1s, and A-10s and AV-8Bs are constantly attacking and harassing the enemy advance to buy time for the infantry to break contact and flee another kilometer or three. They find success because they’re committed to the role: they’re not free ranging pilots but an organic part of the force structure supporting the overall intent of the mission.

You’re flying a Battlefield Jet in DCS: Infantry. If you expect it to stand up on the merits of being a jet, you’re going to be sorely disappointed, as I believe you’ve found. The fun and challenge of flying a jet in Arma isn’t trying to fly the jet to it’s maximum, cutting down entire fields of enemies while singing a medley of Dos Gringos tunes like in DCS.

The challenge is maintaining your SA of a rapidly changing situation, trying to keep good eyes on friendlies, and being available to hit what they want when they want, without getting them or yourself killed. Authenticity through Gameplay. Can you do your job within the constraints of a mission that primarily isn’t about you? The things supplied in this update are all things to aid the pilot in doing that, supporting and interacting with troops on the ground. The jets are just a way to payrole that.

All that said, I really need to step away from this. I’ve spent a lot of time mulling these concepts over for little gain, and it’s apparently a very raw spot.

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Agreed - because apparently a lot of people enjoy the fast jets in A3, so yeah, I agree with that.

But I do still think that it isn’t asking a whole lot to have aircraft turn when they bank. I don’t see that as a huge reach…but I get that it isn’t a priority.

I wouldn’t say it’s a raw spot for anyone. It’s just disappointing is all. As @Tankerwade said, we (well, me) just set ourselves up to be disappointed by not taking into account that TOH was such a big part of rotorlib and no such project existed for fixed wing aircraft. Their excellence in so many other areas just makes “average” look, well…less than average.


That wasn’t a veiled swipe at this thread or anyone in it…

Back at SimHQ I tried making something like six or seven missions reliant upon fixed wing air support. I’ve spent way too much time trying to hammer down exactly how to implement fixed wing aircraft into the larger scheme of Arma operations. It never seemed to work, either poor design, poor communication, or uninterested players always seemed to keep success at bay.

We’re talking multiple days of constantly re-writing and testing spawn scripts to try and find a balance that isn’t instantly deadly to the infantry element, but still overwhelming as to require air support.

I only have such strong opinions because I’ve done alot of testing, prodding, tweaking, and thinking. Never really got much out of it but frustration and a pretty cool CAS script I wrote.


Reminds me of an @Tankerwade quote from our simhq days: “Evevetybody stay put and wave at the apatche”. I agree with @near_blind. As a system on its own in arma jets are not great until they are integrated with the rest of the game.

I honestly think that for all the flaws that jets have in the FP/ArmA series, the largest remains like so much else: there’s little content outside of the jets themselves to play with. That leaves the jets alone to carry the DLC and that doesn’t work out so well if you’re not doing DCS level fidelity. Plus, the subject matter are multirole fighters which have always had problems – I remember back in FP with my Super Bug, trying to get a JSOW to have a decent standoff range, which meant making the weapon itself go a ridiculous speed to get to where it needed to go. You don’t really have those kinds of issues if you’re going with CAS aircraft like turboprops.

I do think a lot of the basic upgrades like sensors are a step in the right direction, but after doing my own sensor suite in the Apache along with basic knowledge of how certain weapon guidance systems work, I feel a lot of it falls flat on its face.

A lot of effort was put into this which makes it sad because with a little bit more, they could have gotten a much better response. If anyone would like some extra details, send me a PM and I’d be happy to share a few of my own experiences on the subject.

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Interesting points being made, here…

Don’t retract your opinion if its how you feel. I haven’t purchased it either, mainly because I’m waiting for more time to play ARMA, and for the modding community to catch up and utilize it. Rule #1 for ARMA should be DONT PLAY VANILLA ARMA.

ARMA Jets is about like DCS Combined Arms. Its not their specialty and it ends up being a joke if you are expecting full fidelity.

I do appreciate the pricing model for ARMA expansions. I think I’ve spent about 75 dollars including the game itself and have purchased all DLC except Jets. I dont even know why I bought karts… Modding community for ARMA pretty much puts every other game community to shame. ACE3, RHS, and Taskforce Radio are some of the most impressive and functional mods I’ve ever seen in a game. Not to mention the 100’s if not thousands of Terrains available. No offense, but some of the ARMA free terrains would put Normandy and NTTR to shame, for free as well.

I would never play another game if they combined ARMA with DCS…

if it just did a ‘Aces of the Europe ~ 1993’ on the flight models :smile:

With Arma 3 I would disagree. While the assets are the futuristic stuff we all love to “meh” over base Arma 3 is by far the best of the series in terms of play ability. When @near_blind and I play the only gameplay mod we feel is required is ACE and that is just for the medical system really. I would say of all the Arma games this one is great vanilla.

I always felt that ArmA2 was the best out of the box. And we all played vanilla FP for the longest time, too.

Not paying tribute to the RHS overlords…

Edit* re-read and I shall let you off.

I don’t want to pile on or hurt anyone’s feelings. I have purchased but not tried Jets DLC. Until reading this thread I TOO expected a fixed-wing version of what ARMA did with helicopters. Yes, it is my fault for not reading the fine print but I don’t follow the scuttlebutt about ARMA the way I do DCS or IL2. BI shares some blame because they must have known what a big deal rotorlib was to helicopter fans. So had I downloaded the new content and gone through the anticipation of a significant FM improvement, I would have posted all sorts of nasty comments borne from my disappointment. We were spared my tongue and now my expectations have been moderated to see “Jets” as squad support which really is no change from before but apparently the targeting sophistication is much better.

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If your not playing with TFAR, you’re missing out. Adds to immersion greatly. Love the radio sound effects and teamspeak compatibility.

Not mention some of the gear/weapon mods. There is some great stuff out there. I’m curious to see what they do with the jets dlc as far as modding goes. The one thing it’s missing for me is some good boardable ships for some VBSS action.

Thanks for saving me some money. Waiting for CAP 2 to get into a playable state.