DCS 2.7 Discussion

[MBot]

@Clutch

Airbrakes out DLC on. I don’t know what my RPM is but my physical throttle range is consistently below 50%. Compared to the B where it’s consistently above 50% in the same situation.

The F-14A is very efficient in cruise/low power settings, considerably more than the F-14B in my experience. For the 350 kts carrier brake I aim for a 4’000-ish lbs/h fuel flow per engine in the F-14B but only about 2’500-ish in the F-14A. The pattern is then flown with very little power. I don’t really check it at this point, put it is probably also in the 2’500 fuel flow range.

The biggest challenge I find now is the burble. I find it quite hard to anticipate just the right amount of power correction without overdoing it. Here is my best pass from this evening.

You can clearly see the effect of the burble. At about 1/4 NM is the upwind area, where you can see the blue line. This is the AOA decreasing (fast chevron). You can also see how I am getting carried above the glideslope. This requires a timely power reduction and slightly stick back.

Then in-close is the downwash area with the line going yellow, indicating AOA going up (slow chevron). This requires more power and stick forward in anticipation to correct (if you only react to the change it is already too late to ensure a stable landing). But at the same time it is also critical to not over correct this or you end up overpowered over the deck. In this case I managed to to keep the ball centered (no descending) but could not prevent the AOA from going temporary slow. Fortunately I could still correct this before touchdown.

Ideally, all changes should be anticipated sufficiently for the whole line to remain solid on-speed green. This is pretty challenging, but this hands-on style of flying is why I love the Tomcat so much. It is a difficult aircraft to fly.

I land with DLC engaged (which was SOP as I understand it) but try to not touch it. It can be useful to recover from mistake, but in my opinion a landing that was salvaged with DLC is never pretty. And landings should be pretty

[Clutch]

Could definitely be the burble contributing to my floatiness as I get closer. My inability to stabilize the AoA is the biggest factor, I think. I can keep it nice and stable on downwind, but once I start that Groove turn it all goes to hell. With my throttles so low there isn’t much adjustment room. In some cases I need to reduce throttles lower than idle, but that’s obviously not possible. Next time I get some stick time I’ll try a heavier trap weight and see how it goes. Or CASE III to get around that groove turn mess…sometimes it’s easy for me to work backwards on things.

[Cib]

I see the bandits but cant seem to make them either lock them or bug them in CRM RWS

[sobek]

Yeah I think there’s some bugs involved currently.

[Deacon211]

How’s your trim situation? Do you find that you tend to trend fast (or slow) every time you look at the indexer, requiring you to correct back to on speed?

If so, that’s a trim issue. ideally, if you are truly trimmed on speed, then there should be as many slightly fast as there are slightly slow deviations. Any repeating trends are trim. There’s a tendency to hold pressure on the stick to correct those little issues. But, as soon as you look away, you will relax the pressure and the aircraft will return to where it is trimmed.

The second thing is that, when you enter the approach turn, you are diverting some of your lift to turn the jet. This may get lost in the wash, since your intention is to descend (very gently) anyway.

But, as soon as you roll wings level, that lift is going to come back, and right about where you don’t want it. In anticipation of this, you can make something of a preemptive power correction when you roll wings level. It doesn’t need to be/shouldn’t be long. Don’t wait to see it’s effects. If you still feel that you are getting high/fast, do it for a second longer.

Rinse. Repeat.

Last one. Are you hitting your pattern numbers and are you rolling out with a centered ball? Even just a little LIG or flat at the start, can send you off to the races. Because that ball is so thick at the start, you can be quite under or over powered and still appear to be perfectly set up. Then, as the ball narrows, it starts to accelerate towards the top or bottom, and you are stuck making big power changes to try to catch it…usually too late.

Flying the pattern properly can fix a whole host of ball flying issues, simply because you are trimmed and appropriately powered when you roll into the groove.

Of course, this all assumes that the sim flys as the jet would. Slippery airplanes are a real issue in sims, and always have been. There are planes that drop like a rock at idle in real life (I’m looking at you Kingair) that float like butterflies in any sim I’ve flown it in.

[WarPig]

@Deacon211

(I’m looking at you Kingair)

Truer words have rarely been spoken!

[chipwich]

First, there is NO shame in using DLC.

Secondly…

@Cib

HMS Invincible aircraft carrier

Yeah baby.

[jross]

South Atlantic Assets Pack Free additions to DCS core!

RK’s impression was these, or some of them, need a bit more time in the oven. But it’s a great start.

[chipwich]

@jross

But it’s a great start

Yes, at least now you can lead a four ship off of the ramp without the 3 AI ending up in the drink.

[Deacon211]

Anything with Harriers is OK in my book!

[Whiskey_two]

There is a lot of ‘conversation’ (read: frustration) about the way radar locks work on the Viper and Hornet currently. As it stands, locks can only be obtained at 83% (I believe that’s the number) of detection range; and detection range is reduced from the past in both jets. Combined this makes for very poor at-range performance.

It’s the belief of most of the community that this 83% rule is incorrect - I’m of the opinion that it’s blatantly wrong.

For the Hornet, a target is a brick until it can be resolved into a trackfile; this “in between” lock and detection range would be the brick phase. All trackfiles are weapons-quality tracks, thus “lockable”.

The way it works in the Hornet currently bricks are relatively rare; and often at range a trackfile can be obtained but not locked.

Plus, it’s rather common sense that an STT lock, AKA dumping all of the radar’s energy into a specific point in space would increase the range at which something could be tracked or locked - not decrease it.

Anyway…rant off.

@Baltic_Dragon has worked an incredible masterpiece with Dominant Fury. This is a must-buy.

[Troll]

@Whiskey_two

the way radar locks work on the Viper and Hornet currently

Viper update - #291 by Phantom88?

[sobek]

@Whiskey_two

Plus, it’s rather common sense that an STT lock, AKA dumping all of the radar’s energy into a specific point in space would increase the range at which something could be tracked or locked - not decrease it.

Nope. The beam doesn’t become more focused just because it’s no longer being steered around.

[Whiskey_two]

You are correct, of course. I worded my statement poorly.

Rather what I meant to indicate is that if a track were of insufficient quality to allow an STT (despite being a track), when an STT were attempted the quality would increase through increased refresh rate in the returns going to the data processor.

I will bow out of this from here though, unless someone has more to add. I don’t want to drag Mudspike into the…err…mud?

[sobek]

@Whiskey_two

Rather what I meant to indicate is that if a track were of insufficient quality to allow an STT (despite being a track ), when an STT were attempted the quality would increase through increased refresh rate in the returns going to the data processor.

The way the radar establishes STT is exactly that, it looks where it thinks the target is right now and then it starts scanning the volume that is the most plausible location, plus accounting for some error. But when returns are so noisy that a track just can’t be established, having more returns is not necessarily better (it is only if the noise is an additive white Gaussian noise process, because then it evens out over multiple samples, but I don’t think this condition holds for the radar case, and even if it did, that form of processing adds a lot of lag).

[jross]

@sobek

The way the radar establishes STT is exactly that, it looks where it thinks the target is right now and then it starts scanning the volume that is the most plausible location, plus accounting for some error.

I guess I always assumed the RADAR on a fighter would be more, err, better (sophisticated) than what we used from the ground (long-range search) but your description is, basically, how the RADAR techs explained the “raw” (no transponder) tracking to me once upon a time.

I think I was the only one that ever asked them that question (based on their reaction - their eyes got all big, "hey, an operator is actually asking me tech stuff!) way back then - my geek-ness was on display at an early age.

[sobek]

A lot of progress has been made wrt processing techniques and the quality of the mixed signals electronics, but in the end its still a radar beam rastering the sky and listening for returns.

[Clutch]

I’m finding it’s definitely a me issue. I’m even struggling with the Hornet now, whereas up until the June update I was getting OK4.0 with boring regularity.

[MBot]

Well, I have been practicing carrier circuits with the F-14A for the past few evenings, searching for that perfect trap. I must have made around 100 landings in the past week. At this point I consider it practically impossible to make a consistent good trap without using DLC. Sure, every 10th or so try I get a decent landing. But without being able to reproduce this consistently this is just pure luck.

The burble is simply messing things up so badly that a stabilized approach with just throttle control is not consistently possible. Even with DLC corrections, keeping a stable centered ball while staying on-speed is pretty challenging.

This is not a question of getting cheap 3-wires that would cost your wings. Getting these is pretty easy

[Victork2]

@Clutch

I’m even struggling with the Hornet now

I have NEVER managed to land the hornet well. I can fly a perfect approach and still get it wrong in the last 200 feet to the deck. The tomcat is a lot easier for me to get accurate and controlled corrections in.