I’m always happy to see new planes in DCS.
My only minor gripe is that once the wow factor is gone… well the characteristics of the 104 are just so limited.
That said virtual pilots always managed to find new and interesting ways to play so, curious.
It was the air superiority fighter of its day. In Vietnam ‘65-‘67, it was used for BARCAP and the North Vietnamese never challenged it; MiGs stayed on the ground and far away.
It did some great work in Tawain as well.
I envision it becoming a mainstay A2A fighter on the Enigma server, replacing the F-5 in that role. That’s basically what it will be: an F-5 on steroids (power to weight, anyone?) with an emphasis on A2A that can still drop a couple bombs. It’ll be fun, and simple (I think!).
As some of you may know, i spent a lot of time w the (amazing) mod. Very realistic flight model imo. Cant beleive this will be official
Our air force had zippers before f-5s. They coexisted for decades iirc.
Zipper is gonna teach us all the meaning of “speed is life” and “one quarter turn only Vasily”. You run in, bounce em, then gtfo with your hair on fire. It’s not a dogfighter, too much AoA will kill you.
Yes! Like IRL, a lot of things about the F-104 will ‘kill’ players (self included). It’ll be fun to watch, and have a lot of heart and soul hopefully. I’m excited. The fighter stuck around in service a long time during the Cold War, West Germany, Spain, Italy (retired as late as '04!), Canada, Japan, just tons of Air Forces used them forever. I think it will fit right in, as right now we basically only have the F-5, which wasn’t really that universally successful with NATO countries in the grand scheme of things.
Limited? Sure. But then, place those characteristics within the context of how most F-104 operators used their Zippers. After all, a lot of the F-104’s bad rep comes from the sensationalizing of its accident rate. That rate was a result of the more advanced 104s (the Gs namely) being asked to fly stupid low altitude interdiction and strike missions.
The max speed of the 104G at sea level is about 750KIAS. If you like the Viggen, you should like this as its a similar mission profile, but even harder owing to a lack of sophistication that the Viggen enjoys.
104s were asked to do a lot. I’d even argue they were asked to do ground attack more than their stated intercept mission.
If we were only getting the 104A or something? I’d definitely be in total agreement. But, seeing as Spain flew the F-104G, I’d imagine that’ll be the most accessible variant they could make. Going by Aerges delivering multiple variants? We could see quite the represented smattering of aircraft.
The F-104G represents the widest procured variant and was a multi-mission aircraft.
The Canadian CF-104 was a real stand out weirdo as it was, initially, turned from an interceptor into a dedicated recon and nuclear strike role. They even tore out the gun to add more fuel and the radar only had an air to ground mode. This would get reversed starting in 1970.
F-104A would be a simple rocket ride.
And the Italian F-104s are just insanity. They served until '04 when it was even proposed to give the AMRAAMs before they came to their senses and realized “… we should probably just get something new.”
So, hold that judgement until we get more information from Aerges on variant. If we were to only get the F-104A? I’d definitely feel your position.
For some interesting input, I recommend Polyus studios’ video on Canadian aviation history:
Love his work, it’s reminiscent of late 80s, early 90s Discovery Wings; documentaries without the exciting graphics meant to hype you up because clearly the subject matter of an aircraft made in the 1950s that can match modern fighters for rate of climb isn’t exciting enough.
Although it seems 90% okay a major nitpick is that the F-104 was not designed as or ever intended to be a dedicated Interceptor.
Or maybe people just take lightweight Air Superiority (the 1952 USAF requirement) and Interceptor to be the same thing and semantics don’t matter - but considering even Wiki gets it right he should be also.
A Great Uncle flew CF-104’s (and CF-101’s) before going on to a long career with Air Canada.
My parents visited him only a few years ago and although in his 80’s he was still teaching Airforce cadets how to fly gliders.
i would imagine he was quite the expert on energy management after flying 104’s! awesome!
Very good point, the USAF had the F-102 and F-106 to fulfill that role, the F-104 was the ‘low’ part of that paradigm. Sorta like the F-15/F-16 in the 80’s.
i never knew that. I always assumed it was, but its interesting and rabbit hole inducing information to find out it was an Air superiority bird!
*Edit
I actually always assumed it was a similar effort to the EE Lightning. fuel critical from takeoff to landing type of interceptor. I’m gonna need to find out more.
Very true. It does get tarred as an interceptor probably because if its performance characteristics and not-so-stellar turn performance.
Really nothing the US had at the time knew how to turn, but they did go fast. 
Dunno, I don’t like to sound passive aggressive nor “know-it-all” but I worked 12 years in an Italian fighter interceptor base with a number of pilots and instructors that flew the “Spillone” (nickname for the 104, literally means “Hatpin”) and I heard enough first hand account to have the (dubious and clumsily self-appointed) right to say that I know what I say when I claim that bird is limited.
Do I want to start a written debate, hell naw.
I don’t need internet clout or anything else, but know that I read a lot of stuff here that makes me smirk, but I will refrain to comment further.
I am happy, I swear, to see more cold war planes.
The 104 will make a fine addition to the DCS stable.
not to inflame or prod (you know me)
in what way would be limited, lack of hardpoints or range is the thing that pops instantly to mind, it does seem like quite a compromised bird in the mid 90’s to me. but i confess as to liking the shape, not knowing much about the actual plane itself if you understand me
I’ll respond in private as I am sure there’ll be a lot of answers here and I don’t intend commenting further.
understood and I hope that you understand that i was interested rather than argumentative 
That’s awesome! I think everybody here loves hearing other’s viewpoints, especially with IRL experience. You don’t/haven’t sound(ed) passive aggressive at all; we’re just discussing the merits of the module. It’s not like someone here has one in their garage and thinks it’s the best thing since sliced bread, and will be offended if you disparage it. 
I certainly never disagreed with what you said about it being limited; just meant to offer a perspective of why people might be excited by it.
One thing to be taken into account is the time period: I assume your experience was at the tail end of its service, and not during the '60s when it was in frontline service. Back then it basically had to worry about the Mig-21 (and not the BIS 75AP variant we have now), which it seemed to do okay against when flown well, before it was eclipsed by the F-4. I imagine its obvious limitations were less apparent then, than they were in the 80’s, 90’s, and on. Would I want to be flying them against 70’s & 80’s frontline Soviet fighters? Big nope!
Agreed. It fills a hole in the lineup, and opens the possibility for some neat Cold War gameplay, so I’m excited for it.
They seem to have been fairly okay in the roles they played including Air Superiority and ground attack for both the USAF and the PAF (65 & 71)
They took part in Bolo but were CAPing some distance away and were never required. There were very few MiG encounters and various reasons why they didn’t engage. Typically the VPAF did hit and run and tried to avoid the fighters. One USAF F-104C was shot down over China by a Chinese J-6.
Oh I’m definitely not trying to diminish that. Like I state, I’d totally agree with it being limited it what can be done with it, provided we receive a 104A/C or one of the Italian ones. I think that’s totally valid as pure air superiority/interceptors don’t provide the kind of variety something else might.
I’m just stating that we should wait to see what form this 104 takes. Do we get one of the ones that flew low and hit hard or do we get one of the space needles you threw at bombers?
That’s all I’m getting at, I didn’t mean any disrespect.
