DCS comms in SP (F/A-18C Alert 5 mission)

Flight Sims
21

So I’m not 100% on how this scenario is set up, I’ve never played this one in particular.

However in general, I always try and commit as early as possible

Commit: Select Max A/B, accelerate to just under the mach (.9-.95) and then climb as steeply as I can while maintaining that speed (15-20 degrees nose up is usually good). All of this and setting my geometry for the intercept (turning to point directly at the priority group).

I usually try and commit no later than 55 miles if I can help it. 60-70 will work out best.

The goal of this commit is to get yourself above 30,000 feet (ideally above 40,000 feet) AND supersonic prior to shooting. As I approach 40,000 feet/5-7NM prior to my shot range I start to level off the aircraft and allow it to accelerate through the mach, and start centering up the dot (in azimuth primarily, if you are well above the bandit you don’t really need to in elevation).

Next comes the shot, and CRANK

CRANK: as soon as the missile is off the rail, I immediately select IDLE power, roll 135 degrees (either direction) and pull 4-5 G’s until the bandit is ~45 degrees offset on the radar and I am now pointed downhill at 20-30 degrees nose low. Once I am stabilized and rolled out, I continue doing small check turns to try and get the bandit all the way over to the edge of my scope. the goal of this descent in the crank is to get yourself co-level to below the bandits altitude before you have to defensively respond.

Now I am assessing my shot and the bandits maneuvers (if any). If he continues to point at me, even with maneuvers (if he cranks/ does any maneuver that he can still spike me through) and I shot in accordance with the rules of thumb I posted above, I assume the missile still has a good chance of getting to him, so I will hold off on shooting a second and wait for F-pole (missile timeout).

If he turns 90 degrees or more (to the beam or running) I assume my missile is defeated and immediately stop my descent, select max A/B and start looking for another shot.

Here’s the cool part about this. those rules of thumb I posted above also hold true for the bandits missiles as well. So if you shoot at 20, and he shoots at 15, your missile will timeout first, and you will still have time to notch or abort. This rule has caveats inside of 10NM especially with R-27ER shooters, but holds true outside of that pretty much 100% of the time.

The caveats inside of 10 NM for R-27ERs is that they are faster than any other missile inside of 10NM, and will probly win a straight up missile drag race that close. if the shot is outside of 10NM, once the missiles motor has burnt out, they are so draggy that the extra speed doesn’t really turn into any advantage and they slow down just as much as they accelerated, however inside 10NM they are super fast and beat all of the assumptions and rules of thumb I have talked about.

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22

…interesting…that is going to give you a high closure rate even if your target is a Cessna 150.:slightly_smiling_face:

I always look to go into a fight at my best turning speed, about 450 KIAS. That gives me a good amount of time to work the head on shots and ensures I go into the merge at the best energy for a turning fight.

If my memory serves me correctly, what we are calling a Crank, is called “taking your interval”. Typically I maneuver a lot less aggressively…more concerned with keeping the target in the radar volume. Since I don’t need to bleed off knots, I don’t bank more than 45-60 AOB nor pull more than 2 Gs, if that.

Of course that is probably the influence from working in an F-14 squadron. Given the Tomcat’s forward quarter capable missiles and TWS, the initial part of an engagement was the RIO’s show up to just before the merge, when it was “time to do that pilot stuff” - so the BVR shots were taken at a slower pace than was the case in the fur ball.

Great discussion.

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23

You are supersonic out at 20-30 miles from the target, well prior to the merge. Note how after the bvr shot I select idle and start to descend, what I did not talk about in that post was merge prep, which would be once you are inside 10 miles or so to the bandit and committed to the merge you get yourself in an advantageous position and setup at corner speed.

You definitely do not want to be supersonic during a bfm engagement, but shooting missiles bvr, 100% of the time if I can I want to be super

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Navy uses the same terminology in this case. Being at merge speed well in advance of the merge doesn’t buy you anything and reduces the effectiveness of your weapons. Every tactics document I’ve read, naval and Air Force prioritize getting high, then fast, in that order.

That gives you the best Pk and the first shot, which you never want to pass up if it’s an option.

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25

Also don’t know the taking interval term, but cranking is what any maneuver to enhance your f-pole is called.

You absolutely want to maneuver aggressively to get the crank going. The sooner you can get established and reduce that rate of closure, the more you will slow down the bad guys intercept and delay or deny his shots, and the more range you will preserve for yourself when your missile times out.

Another thing, staying high does nothing for you during the crank, it only makes his job easier because you can’t maneuver as well up high, and when it comes time to notch you want him to be looking down at you, otherwise the notch does nothing. Thus the aggressive descent at idle power trying to control your airspeed to be right at corner speed the whole way down.

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image

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27

But I’m getting high to kill commies, which are much worse

29

Interesting…my reference point is 1985-1988 so I guess a little out of date. I would have remembered the term “Crank”…I’m fairly sure we just used F-pole…and now that I think of it, “interval” was for coming into the break. LOL :grin:

Also, the F-14A tactics of the day may have been influenced by AIM-54 employment and the long intercept. I do know that they rarely went super sonic and from debriefs and watching simulator intercepts, don’t recall their pulling high Gs on the F-Pole maneuvers.

…all things considered, I should be much better prepared for Heatblur’s F-14 than I am for the Bug…yeah, right. :sunglasses:

Next I’ll be telling you all how those open cockpits were really cold and how easy it was to lose sight of your target when they went behind one of the bi-wings of your Spad…:yum:

30

In that particular scenario, failure to penetrate the Mach is likely more owed to the anemic acceleration of the TF-30 at medium/high altitude and the draggy nature of the Phoenix as a store. The B/D are less hampered in that area. The general rule In BVR is you always want to start as high and fast as possible.

Likewise while 4-5Gs aren’t that many in the scheme of things, the AWG-9/Phoenix combo places some restrictions on certain post launch maneuvers. It’s less of an issue when you can theoretically shoot at the distances Klar is just beginning his commit.

31

Not to detract from the excellent info already given, but can anyone detail the AI wingman’s behavior in the mission? For me, he always engages the Fencers (I dunno why I kept thinking they were Backfires), never the Fulcrums. That makes my job relatively simple as I always go for the Fulcrums, and typically by the time I’ve hosed the Fulcrums, he’s already got a lead on the Fencers.

Pertaining to engaging at altitude, one consistent problem I seem to have with going high is detecting the incoming aircraft. I don’t know how good my radar should be at detecting targets at 5kft over the water, but sometimes passing 25kft it gets spotty. Adjusting antenna elevation can help, but it doesn’t seem to change a whole lot.

32

I don’t know what the wingman is doing. My best guess is the “engage bandits” sets him loose with the default search than engage logic and he’s simply choosing the nearest target. Could also be that bombers are weighted as more “valuable” than fighters. Idk.

For the radar, the APG-73 in game has no issues spotting contacts at rediculous ranges. The railroad tracks/cursor/whatever displays the upper and lower bounds of the altitude scanned with that bar setting at the cursor’s current range. As you move the cursor closer the bounds get smaller, and larger when you move it away, reflecting the reality that your scan zone is actually a giant cone.

What you can do to quickly find targets is listen to the AWACS, who should be giving out regular BRA calls. Put your radar cursor at the bearing an range from you the AWACS calls, then manipulate your elevation so that the upper and lower bounds are above and below the called out altitude. Your targets should appear.

Also remember that your radar is stabilized with respect to the horizon in non ACM modes, so pointing your nose up or down won’t accomplish anything.

33

I’d think that would be the case but the Fulcrums are typically faster, slightly higher, and in front of the Fencers.

Agreed on the AWACS, I always have them on my second radio and follow his calls out to the letter.

34

Silly question but I assume BRA is bearing range altitude?

I’ve only done a couple of missions with e3 instead of the a50 and Im still getting used to his calls.

I find myself always locating them about 20 degrees off of the expected location as well. I assume down to travel time and offset from the awacs track to my own.

35

Yes. I’m not sure if the bearing is true or magnetic. Going by the adage “if you hear it, it’s magnetic, and if you read it, it’s true”, one might assume that a BRA call is magnetic. But, I’ll leave that to the professionals around here.

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36

Perhaps not…I recall that there was something in the F-14’s called a torque tube (or something like that) that would bend at not that high of a G load under certain circumstances…the CO ad XO were alas going off about somebody “bending a torque tube”…one thing I hope Heatblur doesn’t include LOL :slightly_smiling_face:

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37

Which aircraft and map are you on? All FC3 aircraft are in true heading, while DCS modules should generally be magnetic. The magnetic variation also varies by map, with the most severe being Nevada at + or - 12 degrees (can’t remember which way).

The F-14 was designed with an 9G operational limit in mind, which was dropped to 7Gs by the Navy upon introduction to prolong air frame service life. There was an infamous incident during testing where one aircraft hit 13Gs, and they couldn’t find anything wrong with the jet. This all assumes new air frames, things degrade overtime and I don’t pretend to know how that part atrophies, perhaps it does become radically more sensitive to G. Maybe your drivers were doing naughty things (assymetric or negative G are both massive no nos). What I do know is I’d rather bend a tube than lose the jet due to flying a lethargic timeline.

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38

Caucasus and an f15c. That might explain the situation.

39

20 still sounds like a pretty significant deviation. Magvar in The caucuses should only be 6 or so.

40

I’m guessing that my inexperience in radar usage on the f15c plus the change to US awacs plus the true/magnetic bearing PLUS the magnetic deviation PLUS! the time taken to actually find the target is adding up to cause this.

Its actually quite nice knowing this. As I just assumed it was one factor (me) at play but there is more to it I think which is comforting

41

It’s just a ball park anyone because the contacts are moving.

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