DCS DEPLOYED! - My Lil Project

[jross]

@Clutch

It looks like there’s an error in the comms programming from channel 13 onward. The DEPLOYED breifing shows the following:

I’ll take a look. Rarely fly the Viper much. Each platform needs to handle the radios slightly different. Downside to supporting so many.

Think I see the issue: The Viper has only UHF for COMM1 - I missed a setting to use UHF freq’s for (as I look at the list) “Marshal” (this name needs to be updated to "Big-T Marsha, the Tarawa), Freedom Marshal, need to be swapped out for UHF versions. This may be the reason the lists (in DCSGrok) and what’s in your COMM1 radio don’t jive - should be moving all VHF freqs out of COMM1 to COMM2 in this case…

Most testing used the Hornet and Harrier where COMM1 can handle both U/VHF. And I’m not yet familiar enough with the Viper radios.

@Clutch

I checked in at the 3 FOBs and was acknowledged, but had no tasking–perhaps normal?

Not yet. The audio just got created but haven’t turned it on yet.

@Clutch

• When checking in with Range Bravo I was instructed to check in with CENTER instead.

Should be automatic - it switches U when you need to be switched.

Models the real world comm flows in a simplistic[1] anyway.

From Incirlik it should go (all on COMM1):

• Tune OPS, “With You”, they answer; you just have to ‘know’ to call ops; you are going flying and need to get started. Note you could skip this and it should still pick up from the next bullet…
• Tune Tower 360.1, call DCS ATC Request startup/taxi/takeoff, etc
• You Take off: An event fires when you get airborne; since DCS ATC (except in 1 instance) is clueless about this DEPLOYED ‘fakes’ it an switches you to APPROACH (they serve the role of DEPARTURE here to, which is accurate).
• When you leave APPROACH airspace APPROACH switches you to the AOR. You stay here unless there’s a CAS task with a JTAC (later on, or with the Range controller if requested)
• If you need to refuel or talk to a firebase (no matter where you are) you need to “Request | Off Frequency” so they know you’re not there. For AR you use the DCS interface; when done with AR call K-mart (“With you”) - now they know you are ‘back’.

Over time I eliminated the requirement of an acknowledgment on your part for something like a freq switch - they assume you heard it and are going to do it (when you change to the next freq this is picked up in the scripts). Goal was to eliminate another step in the process. Same with pop-up tasks: they notify you of a new one ; you ‘request [it]’ tasking’, they then read it and assume you accept it. You have to cancel the task after this.

There is a path that checks a some point in the future (forget the amount, 30-60 seconds [have to look] )to see if you did in fact make the freq change in your radio. If not it will - should - switch you again; Only does this one more time.

In VAICOM Pro (which I use) this all works quickly and easily. However with a mouse - I wanted to eliminate as much ‘mouse-clicking’ as possible. This is why feedback is helpful.

Tune Agency (OPS, DCS Tower if used),

If you call, say, the Range before you enter it (the distance varies little) it will switch u to where you are supposed to be. Depends on the ‘control-type’ of the AI entity; some don’t ‘own’ any airspace (3D volume) and you can talk to them (within the DCS complex radio limits) from anywhere…

However, it mimics the comms in the real world at a basic level, for example if you are talking to “K-Mart” (the AOR entity) and call a firebase (these are ‘un-controlled’) - then K-mart has something to say (give you tasking lets say) it assumes you are still “with” them until,

A) it switches you [should be automatic but sometimes it appear it misses things ], or
B) you Request | off Frequency) - it won’t try to switch you or talk to you at all

This is same when talking to a real person.

This is all in the full manual but I haven’t published it yet - mostly cus it’s not complete. I’ll do a YT on this.

@Clutch

When and to whom should RTB be called through the FLIGHT STATUS option?

Any agency except the Firebases and Range Controllers - they don’t care or know how to handle this - they are not ‘control’ agencies…yeah, perhaps too much realism? A YT video is in the works right now on this.

@Clutch

• CENTER: Request high/low; what are these?

Request a higher or lower altitude than currently assigned (the ‘expect flight level XXX 10 minutes after departure’). It’s a place-holder at the moment as I don’t want to introduce that level of realism quite yet - they approve everything right now.

@Clutch

Tanker tracks aren’t marked on the map (WIP?)

Shoot, they were on there - I started out with doing the display of these (and others) in the lua scripts, then moved that task to DCSGrok - just didn’t do those yet (I create the ‘drawings’ in DCSGrok now, then copy them over).

[1] By simplistic, for instance:

• Jet fighters where (as of early 2000’s, likely still same) switched to DEPARTURE freq by the tower when cleared for takeoff (I won’t go into why a this time to save space).
• While “Real people” have procedures to handle, literally, ‘edge cases’ when it comes to entering/exiting or just ‘brushing up against’ a neighboring airspace (short duration) DEPLOYED uses ‘hard’ boundaries. For now anyway.

[jross]

@Clutch

CLEAN loadout selection for the Viper gives the HARMxMAVERICK payload.

That should not happen. I’ll check.

Thanks for the feedback. Very much appreciated. There are so many variations here; introducing a variety of aircraft, while planned for, needs tweaking.

[jross]

@Clutch

CLEAN loadout selection for the Viper gives the HARMxMAVERICK payload.

Hmmm. Ok, I literally ‘see’ the issue: this is my source payload for the “CLEAN” Viper:

PS: While that loadout is not “clean” obviously it come from some research into SEAD in the late 90’s-2000’s; they would carry the HARM on one side and a Mav’ on the other. The details of why is buried in my notes somewhere…

All fixed. In the next update

Good news is: It wasn’t the code - it did exactly what I told it to do

[jross]

@Clutch, et.al…

AI “Agencies” and comms flow

Real quick here until I get the YT done…

DEPLOYED has 2 types of ‘Agents’ (not calling them ATC cus that’s too specific for my purposes; there are other internals that dictate what each ultimately can do, will do, and what ‘kind’ of knowledge they have and services they can provide"

• Controlling Agents
  They “own” a 3D chunk of airspace (vertical and horizontal) and have control over flights within. This control manifests itself based on the properties of each but you can think of it like ATC (some like “K-Mart” also control the airspace for military purposes - assigning and coordinating combat operations - blowing stuff up).

They only have ‘jurisdiction’ over their specific 3D space and are the only ones that ‘control’ you (ATC-wise and combat tasks) within it. Thus they need to know they have communications established with you to carry out their ‘job’. This ‘connection’ is established via “With You” calls.

It is arranged in a hierarchy, ie

Syria | RAQQA_EAST “CENTER” contains all the APPROACH agents (including the carriers) and “FOB ALPHA” (H3 North West) - DCS has a tower freq for H3 NW but no ATC tower AI so “CENTER” serves as the APPROACH function - why you get the center freq for the departure freq (I assumed this was an omission by the map builders)

• UN-Controlled Agents
  These own nothing. Mostly for information and un-bounded communications - your ability to talk to them is not bounded by strict borders (horizontal and vertical).

You can all them from anywhere in theory, limited to the DCS complex radio thing - LOS. They are not capable of ATC-like stuff or assigning/authorizing tasks (not qualified if you will). Some can ‘request’ things from you like the Fire bases/FOBs/FARPs and serve as an intermediary to a JTAC/FAC-A.

So, in ASCII graphics:
Control Agents
[APPROACH]<->[CENTER]<->[BOMB RANGE]<->[AOR]

The “‘[ ABCD ]’” indicate they have strict borders, the “<->” denote a ‘handoff’ between control agents - to maintain seamless ‘control’.

NON-Control Agents
OPS * Firebases * and soon mobile ground groups (SPECOPs’ patrols, convoys you may be esorting, etc).
The “‘[’ * ‘]’” denotes the ability to talk to them anywhere, even ops if you are airborne and 100+ miles away. You won’t be able to hear them very well, if at all.

[jross]

Can’t find my API doc on this subject (it’s several hundred pages and getting a little unruly ) but this is a high level illustration of the AI Agency layout. Note that this represents a VERY simply version of what exists in the real world - the code should write itself if you will, and making it specific to any one area - making it ‘perfectly reflect’ one theatre is not possible (don’t have ALL the info anyway, and these areas change sometimes multiple times per day).

The white text boxes are UN-controlled agents (OPS moves to where your home base is each mission)
The black boxes are the ‘global’ agent (“Center”, “Giant Killer”, etc.

The transmitters are fixed (except the ‘global’ one, see below) to either an ‘antenna’ on the ground (airbases) or ‘attached’ to an aicraft - “K-Mart” is a C-130 (someday I’ll use a mod that uses a EC-130) thus the LOS and range limits. You should hear this if setup correctly - scratchy, faint transmissions from K-MART if you are low or far away from them at the time they transmit.

This global agent owns EVERYTHING - all the blue areas (not drawn to scale or in the exact positions just for illustration). The APPROACH’s and AOR here are subordinate to the global one;. If, say, one of the bomb ranges was within the AOR it would be subordinate to the AOR - you would first have to pass through the AOR to ‘get’ to the range, control-wise.

This is a dirt-simple illustration of how this all works in the real world. With the exception I guess of a full-blown WWIII scenario. But I’m not doing that. The goal is to give people a small, very small, taste of this structure. Real pilots won’t like it I’m sure but for the rest of us - and you can always “Cancel” and ignore everything too.

back to work…

PS: You may wonder how, if I’m using the complex/realistic radio thing in DCS, you can talk to the “CENTER” from anywhere (the DCS radio gizmo requires a fixed position) - I cheat: he/she rides along with you, about 100 feet above your canopy Invisible of course.

[jross]

PSS: I realize I need go get more of that on the map. The code is written I just have ‘plug them’ in.

I’m thinking of putting the freqs on there too but in the margins as it gets messy to see your route; think a sectional chart were there’s a lot of info in the margins of the [paper] map. You’ll have to ‘scroll’/move the map around with your mouse to see the margins however.

[jross]

PSSS - the Viper radio is requiring more of an edit that I thought. To keep this process moving along I’m going to use ONLY UHF freqs for COMM1 (so far all platforms I know about can handle this) to talk to DEPLOYED agents and put all VHF in COMM2 (Viper). Will have to adjust for each different radio setup. Have the basic down however - the setting/storiing/extraction of the freq data from the mission file…

[Clutch]

That map is perfect! If you could throw in the three tanker areas it would be an awesome planning resource. My brain had a disconnect not realizing AOR was K-mart.

On a random note, is the mission supposed to disable VAICOM’s interactive kneeboard? Or my VAICOM might be borked, not sure.

[jross]

@Clutch

My brain had a disconnect not realizing AOR was K-mart.

Understood, and understandable - as the cook I’m too close to the sauce, if you will. This discussion tells me I should’ve had a YT video out on this subject already.

@Clutch

On a random note, is the mission supposed to disable VAICOM’s interactive kneeboard? Or my VAICOM might be borked, not sure.

No, I don’t use that feature so not sure how it works. DEPLOYED does nothing with VAICOM. VAICOM works (when I researched it a long time ago) by extracting the text in each of the menu commands, verbatim, and doing speech-to-text voodoo on it. Keeping it up to date was a pain and writing DEPLOYED to use as few menu commands as possible - and NOT CHANGING them - is a priority: cus every time I change one of those VAICOM has to re-import it == a PITA for the user.

And fewer commands you have to memorize too

[Clutch]

Must be something wrong with my VAICOM install then.

Another random note, would any triggers get messed up by switching player/wingman to client slots? This could be fun for small-group multiplayer too.

[jross]

No, you can’t change your wingman to ‘client’ for Single Player Tried that. Made things WAY easier but there are things I do with the AI wingman (right now only 2) that don’t work if Dilbert is set as ‘client’; I can get them to hit the fragged target but ONLY if they are set to something other than client.

It’s like there’s a big empty hole there on the DCS side in this case; Oddly, it will let you try and “Engage Ground Target” for example but they go off into orbit. Works when not set to client. Now, they may have changed this but I’n not tested in at least a year.

You can try it, you and another person. But while I toyed with this early on I had to ‘pick a lane’ so to speak. As is it might work but not tested.

I doubt it would be a huge deal to do this I just can’t fit that feature in right now.

Oh, and I’m pretty sure [though not tested] the radio/comms system won’t work. Or it might work but only for one person?

[Clutch]

Ah yeah if the comms triggers are tied to some kind of cockpit value then I think those only work for player slots.

[jross]

Have the recent changes in making first run…standby for image…

The AR Tracks. Suppose I could lose the circle? Added the SPECOP’s [latest known] position too (not shown here)

Now to check the radios and loadout…

While I’m wating for my slow-arse, old, PC to load it…there is random shipping going on. Tried to have a few near ports. Just a few right now. Pretty easy to add more.

One “CLEAN” Viper…

Freq’s seem to line up now.

Someone asked me once if I could arrange the freq’s to something that made more sense, based on the platform, mission, etc. For a while I’m simply spitting them out sorted numerically, low->high.
Most things in the code (DCSGrok) are configurable by platform there’s extra work to take it to that next level for radios. It’s on the to-do list.

Will have to look into what you mentioned abou the Tomcat and only 3 freqs! Should just be another property to add to the platform definition. But what 3 freqs? Off the top of my head I guess where you take off from…the AOR…Ops?

[chipwich]

I flew the first mission in the Syria campaign in the Strike Eagle. Here come a bunch of dumb questions.

My VAICOM kneeboard was inop as well, but there was both a VAICOM and VA update when I was getting things loaded. And you know what they say about updates. Otherwise it worked fine. I haven’t had time to check the VAICOM community Discord yet. Apparently, either the VA or VAICOM update disabled the kneeboard on the EX tab of VAICOM config. Just re-enable it.

Does ATIS work? I used the freq from the kneeboard, but couldn’t get it to work. Do I need to do anything in the F10 menu, or just input the freq and turn up the volume as I normally would? Do I need to be on COM 1? Per my usual SOP I had Ops on Com1 and tried to get ATIS on Com2.

I probably missed some of the action, because like Clutch, I missed that K-Mart was the AO as well. Obviously a fleshware problem

Try for the life of me, I couldn’t get the Nav system to align, even though the coordinates were in the kneeboard. Also, TACAN was inop without the Nav system.

Do we need to do anything after we fly a mission? Or just select the same campaign and aircraft that we began the campaign with? I read through the Help/Manual but couldn’t find after mission instructions.

An auspicious beginning, but I had fun regardless.

@jross

The AR Tracks. Suppose I could lose the circle?

I’d like to second this request, if it’s possible.

[jross]

Was out doing the YT I should have done already - should help.

No ATIS stil non-functional. I can’t get it to work ‘correctly’ (an audio conflict issue). What will like have to do is treat is kinda like the other comms: you tune it in, enter/say a command, and it will read it back. But only once. Its basically ready in that form. I just put it on the back-burner for a bit.

@chipwich

Try for the life of me, I couldn’t get the Nav system to align, even though the coordinates were in the kneeboard. Also, TACAN was inop without the Nav system.

Hmm. Well, I do set the time-period correct ins thingy. Might that be it? Standby…

“Unrestricted SAT/NAV” == OFF. Is the current setting.

[Clutch]

@jross

Will have to look into what you mentioned abou the Tomcat and only 3 freqs! Should just be another property to add to the platform definition. But what 3 freqs? Off the top of my head I guess where you take off from…the AOR…Ops?

When I make Tomcat missions I usually do the waypoints like:

• 1~3 as nav points
• FP / IP / ST / DP for additional waypoints–usually a point of interest; if a surface attack sortie then IP and ST for initial point and target waypoints

If anything is left over I might use one for divert field, but for airfields or Mother I stick to good old compass and TACAN navigation.

So for mission 1 I would program like:
1- BEACH
2- TAC1
FP- FIREBASE B
IP- FIREBASE C
ST- FIREBASE A
3- RTB

DP is left over and could be used for the bullseye or alternate. I think Jester already programs bullseye without having to use a waypoint but I’m not sure. I know in the Viper bullseye should automatically load as waypoint 25 but I haven’t checked to see if DCS actually does it–the DED says 25 but I’ve never cross-checked the coords.

[jross]

This YT hopefully (along with the above diagram) will help. I forgot to put that diagram in the YT …arg!

- YouTube

[jross]

Ah, ok. For some reason I heard ‘frequencies’, not waypoints. I’ll have to load my Tomcat up and look at the mission file. From what I’ve learned DCSGrok will process it fine as is - DCS likely won’t care how many waypoints get put in the mission file - but HB has a say so as to how many it uses and where they get put in the end.

DEPLOYED is agnostic about all this: there’s a path-finding algorithm in there that will find a route like so:

• Home Base → Control point (CP). This is either near the AOR border or pre-defined based on the current situation and is same as an IP (Initial point). Avoids no-fly zone(s), hitting ‘required’ flow/procedure
• CP → Target point, if any. If not stops at the CP (or builds a route to multiple points as in the FIREBASE tour/show of force)
• HOMEBAsE → extra fixes

So, in three ‘batches’
[HOME…fixes…CP/IP]
[Target if any]
[HOME] This can be expanded but for now I assume you just reverse course.
‘Extra fixes’
[BULLSYE]
[ALTERNATE Landing]
Etc

Thanks for the lead.

[jross]

New version in the folder; V0.882
Did the whole thing as I touched a few other files.

[Clutch]

Something weird going on where the output .miz keeps hanging on load in VR, but always loads normally in 2D.

DEPLOYED-HANG.txt (90.9 KB)
deployed-load.txt (120.8 KB)

The logs are a bit weird. “Deployed-hang” line 969 matches up with “Deployed-load” line 887, but from there they diverge. Any idea why it would hang up?