I re-read this with the added systems.
Wow! For a “simple” test it has been thought out quite smartly! 
Now I’ll be me and bother everyone…
Clears throat
What about the naval AAA systems?
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Except for the 20mm and 30mm CIWS, the modern units unfortunately do not have working dual-purpose naval guns in DCS. That is another one of my long standing pet issues. I would so love to see the Russian ships spew out proximity fused and radar controlled 76mm, 100mm and 130mm rapid fire.
The WWII ships have working AAA.
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Heh, I can see what you mean.
Well, maybe in the next future, who knows.
Very nice work @Wes! This is the kind of reference material that is invaluable to mission building. (…and needs to be in some type of Wiki.)
I tend to work towards what I know. i.e. how Soviet or Western doctrine would deploy various types of AAA. (I can’t speak to WW II) and how other countries and “actors” have historically, and do currently, employed such weapons. Sounds great but at the end of the day, DCS is a simulation. As with all simulations, things don’t match reality so one must adjust things to account for the differences. But how? Just throw more AAA pieces? Or maybe less?
Then @Wes arrives with this piece of scientific analysis based on the simulation’s attributes. Simply outstanding! No more guessing. Now we can work with hard statistical data.
Thank You!
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Thanks for writing this up @Wes. I’ve been meaning to read it, and finally got around to it. I have to get more DCS in during 2021.
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Wow…what a great post/mini article! It somehow slipped past me last week while I was on mobile out flying…and got bumped today (thanks @Fridge!) and I had a chance to read it with my coffee. Fantastic!
I wonder if you’d be interested in me converting it to a main site article? Might not be until first week of January, but it would be a great read up front too!
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That would be excellent!
Let me know if you need anything in that regard.
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Don’t forget the bookmark option allows for reminders! 
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This is fantastic stuff @Wes. Really insightful and very helpful for non experts such as myself. Thanks for putting in the work mate.
@staff - can you swap in the following files:
AAA-Testing-Shilka.miz (20.0 KB) - Overwrites existing, there was a mix up with the file name, the one posted prior has ZU-23’s. This one is corrected to the ZSU-23-4 Shilka.
AAA-Testing-Zu23.miz (20.0 KB) - Renamed file for ZU23’s.
I don’t see the Zu23 file in the top post? Is it new or does it replace one of the others?
New. The one labelled Shilka up there actually had ZU-23’s and there was no actual one with Shilkas.
The two files in my above post rectify that.
Ok. Changes have been made.
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Great article, and it confirms some of what I suspected about the game’s AI.
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@Fridge - some updates due to today’s DCS patch which looks like reduced the 57mm damage (it’s labelled as “fixed” so I can’t say for sure but the result is worse) and a fix on the quad 50cal meaning I can test it since it can take damage. Trying to make this as copy-paste-able as possible!
1. New Chart:
| Unit | AAA Lost [out of 40] | Bf109s Lost (Damaged) [out of 12] | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| SA-19 | 6 | 12 (0) | Invulnerable Huey to cause missile waste, despawn via F10 option. Severe performance issue when many fire at once. |
| Gepard | 8 | 10 (2) | Best pure AAA/SPAAG. Performance impact far less than SA-19, near negligible typically. |
| M6 Linebacker | 10 | 8 (4) | Managed to damage all aircraft. Required multiple Hueys to waste missiles. Gun range near equal to missile range. Reduced elevation capability, attack from steep dives. Lethal against low-angle strafing opponents. 25mm gun very effective with HE, not so much with AP. |
| BMP3 | 11 | 11 (1) | |
| Zu-23 Closed | 13 | 10 (2) | |
| BMP2 | 15 | 9 (0) | |
| Vulcan M163 | 17 | 8 (3) | All Vulcans ran out of ammo, test ended. Severe performance issue when many fire at once. |
| ZSU-57-2 | 20 | 11 (1) | Damaged all aircraft. Rate of fire is moderate. Range is excellent and allows the guns to take trailing shots against the relatively slow Bf109s. Moderate damage per shell. Less powerful after patch, no one shot kills anymore. Increased losses as a result. Pre-patch was 11 losses. |
| Bofors 40mm | 31 | 7 (0) | Bofors ran out of ammo, test ended with one Bf109 still active and conducting strafing runs with only 13mm ammo left & missing most of the time. |
| Shilka ZSU-23-4 | 31 | 12 (0) | |
| Flak38 20mm | 40 | 3 (2) | Did not suffer Flakvierling collateral damage issue despite same unit layout. |
| Flakvierling | 40 | 2 (2) | Potential disqualification, the Flakvierling suffer easy collateral damage from bombs. Other soft units under the same layout not affected, such as 37mm, Bofors & Flak38. |
| 37mm | 40 | 2 (0) | |
| Quad .50 Cal | 40 | 1 (8) | Suffers from some collateral damage due to bombs. Can get picked off by single 30mm shots from 109s now. Does poorly due to low range and lack of punch. |
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2. Revised 57mm description:
ZSU-57-2
- ZSU-57-2 - The one we have all been waiting for (okay that’s really the S-60, but this is “beta” for it!). The 57mm has a low-moderate rate of fire which means that it can still do reasonably well to create follow up shots. Matching it’s caliber, it has the most range by far and can make use of it. After the damaged fix patch these performed worse, suffering more casualties as a result. The shells don’t always punch that hard and it can take perhaps a half dozens sometimes to fully knock a 109 down if nothing critical is hit. It’s key to remember they are NOT flak guns with variable-time fuses. They do self-destruct, but prior to that you have to see the tracers and the lower ROF means that if you are not watching - you may not see some rounds go by and the next ones might not miss. There is no stream to watch for like with a Gepard, SA-19, Vulcan or ZSU-23-4. I think these will be a great addition to our defenses networks and should help push something @Franze has always preached - don’t violate the hard deck. MANPADs don’t have the persistence or volume of fire the same way that these do, although the MANPADs are certainly more lethal. When placed in a good network, these should be a good threat to slower aircraft like the A-10C as well.
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3. Revised .50 cal description:
Quad .50cal
- Quad .50cal - After the recent patch these can take damage more properly and can suffer collateral damage from the bombs. The short range is a problem as they typically are not engaging until after a bomb was already on the way. The 109’s could also get a lucky sniper shot on them with a single 30mm shot at times. You can run the test and see how little the .50 cal guns affect the AI until there is so much fire they starting cutting the aircraft into pieces. The drastically shorter range means a brave pilot could strafe them, if the Quad .50’s accept incoming fire as damage. Anything newer than WWII aircraft (or the F-86 for the US) with a cannon, can out range these and has the advantage of gravity on it’s side.
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4. Changelog update
Just add a line with the date Jan.27/21 with the note: Updated for DCS 2.5.6.60645 OB
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Changes made. I also made the top post a wiki so that others can change it. Should we update the article?
If you can - that would be excellent, thanks!
Argh. I almost got to this last night … but today I am away with a family emergency. I will try to get to it as soon as I can.
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