The ‘forum mod’ job has pretty much gone extinct I think. Most of the paid work that these people do is ‘Community Manager’ sort of roles. So much of the communication now happens via Discord chats, or in making Twitch / Youtube videos, putting out news on Twitter & Facebook - and even lurking on big reddit posts. A lot of them come recruited as fans from the ‘forum era’ and it must be hard with the deluge of info and the immediacy of communication that’s expected today. Mind you, that is why they get paid the big bucks! ;). Best way to hate a hobby is to turn it into a job…
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Mudspike has been for me a giant breath of fresh air, so much credit to all of those here.
Flight sim communities online tend to be toxic and stressful to participate in; and I say that as someone that’s grown up with forums and participated in forums since they’ve existed. The expectations, negative attitudes and hatred towards devs are truly unpleasant to be around.
Flight has been my dream and love for as long as I can remember, and sims give me a way to dip my (virtual) toe into that world. I’ve no delusions about being a fighter pilot; I didn’t work hard enough as a youngster to get there IRL and at this juncture I can’t get a medical ticket to even pilot GA. As a result, I’m incredibly grateful every time I fire up a virtual aircraft - the devs of that aircraft have given me something I would otherwise never have.
For me the joy is in learning the small technical details offered by a study-level sim and then putting them into practice; I’m also happy to then share with others on the same journey.
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Is that true though? If you think of all the Major Flight Sim Companies and/or Mod Teams over the years…which ones have actually been “Hated”? Janes? Microprose? (Pretty sure they were loved) Razorworks? 1C? Ubisoft got a bit of stick as there was a certain sub-set of US players that forever thought that the P51D and .50 calibres weren’t good enough, but i’m not sure that ever spilled over into hatred…
Even Eagle Dynamics were pretty well loved in the Flanker/LOMAC days…
I think most players understand its a bit of a niche market and most devs produce some good product…
There is alot of animosity to Eagle Dynamics these days but that comes down to their incredibly heavy-handed moderation policy and the fact the game has become a de-facto Ponzi scheme in which customers have PAID for a product at Early Release stage (on the promise and expectation of it being completed) and then seen its development being stopped (for unspecified/indefinate periods of time) to allow the company to reap a bonanza of income from another new module released in EA and then to suffer the same fate…at the moment they’re (sort of) managing to keep all the plates spinning…but cynics (like me) believe it’ll all come crashing down when there isn’t a NEW Modern US module (like it or not, people like us who want the Mirage F1 etc are a tiny minority) to prop everything up with a sweet, sweet injection of pre-order/early access cash…
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I don’t believe that’s accurate. I’m not arguing that the US stuff is crazy popular, but DCS Is a worldwide played Sim, owned by a Russian company. I think the fans of specific aircraft will be extremely varied by country and worldwide export of that place itself. I personally feel its a lot more complicated than “we’ve run out of teen series US Aircraft to sell”
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Of course they’re not the “only” popular modules…but they’re the big sellers…the DCS user base increased massively when the F/A18C was released and look how popular the F16 is…even in its unfinished state (and with an arguably better competitor available basically for free)
People like us eulogising about a Mig19 or a Mi8 on a forum, or waiting eagerly for the release of the Mirage F1 doesn’t pay the bills…
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Ponzi scheme is a bit much, even if you put the ‘defacto’ disclaimer before it.
Also not sure it’s quite the ‘bonanza’ of cash that’s coming in.
No offense meant, just think the ponzi/bonanza/sweet sweet cash language is distracting from the argument you’re trying to make.
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If they are like me - as in just here to make money and meet girls, it is easy to understand how frustration can get the better of people. 
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Fair point about the use of hyperbole! I was just trying emphasise what I was saying!
That said - its obvious that the revenue from new modules pays for the completion (or not) of existing modules…
If they’re selling Modules at a price that doesn’t cover development and completion of said module, but requires another new module to come along to cover the completion of its development - that does come perilously close to being a “pyramid scheme” does it not? No new module…no delivery of existing product people have already paid for…
When I said “Bonanza” I meant it not in the sense of a huge amount…but in the sense of a huge proportion of the revenue that module generates coming in the early days of its release…How many people will buy the F/A18C in 2022 and 2023 compared to how many bought it in 2018/19 ?
Anyway…I am getting slightly away from my original point…
The Flight Sim community isn’t particularly toxic…and I don’t think they’re alot of hate towards developers in general…it might feel like it if you take a snapshot of 2019/2020/2021 and look only at ED…but not if you look at the community as a whole towards other developers now, or in the past…and in this instance I don’t think its because we’re a bunch of OCD rivet counters…I think its frustration with non-delivery of and non-communication of timetables for products we’ve already paid hard-earned money for…
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I’d argue it might, you don’t have the data to defend that point. No one disagrees that the US fighters are the big sellers, absolutely agree. But we don’t have the relevant data to suggest that the others don’t pay the bills.
I’d argue that of there was no chance of an investment paying itself back, why would the developers attempt all the work and financial commitment to build them in the first place. You do not have that data
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This is a good point. It’d be interesting to know the percentage of people who own most (if not all) of the aircraft, regardless of whether they ever actually fly them. My guess is that it’s pretty high.
I know I’m guilty of buying almost every module that comes out even though I barely have time to play the ones I’m interested in, let alone a helicopter that I will be lucky to get off the ground without exploding.
But yet, there they sit waiting for that one day, along with all those Steam games that I am totally going to play just as soon as……
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Exactly. Even long, long beta processes (and even unfinished modules) have a factor of enjoyment in them that can’t be discounted. Whether it is at a level that is commensurate with the money you paid is highly individualistic I’d guess.
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You aren’t alone there 
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People forget the Bad Old Days and the amount of very hot, salty air spilled over “unfinished, buggy messes” that were released (falcon 4.0, strike eagle III, the Jane’s hornet, etc).
We have always been, en bloc, if taken as represented on forae, usenet, whatever, a horribly toxic mass of entitled know-it-alls.
It’s not so bad these days. Place like this is a shining beacon of reason and civility. Hoggit is trying pretty darn hard at being more newb friendly than the old places ever were. The devs actually speak to us, do dev blogs, show work in progress.
We have it pretty good I’d say. Used to be way fook’n worse.
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Well used to. Wags quit visiting here due to criticism.
I think it’s hard to be a company representative plus just being a member of a community at the same time. They’ll always be people that want their pound of flesh.
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Is that true? I’m not calling you out but I thought wags was welcome here and even did a special AmA for us or did miss something
You can say that again. I recall feeling lucky if I’d make it 30 minutes on Falcon4 before it crashed. And it was a slide show. Had so much promise. Appeared to be way beyond the scope of what they could achieve given the time & resources they had.
Agreed X2
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Exactly.
Release-patch-dump.
These days we’re complaining that our sims are never finished… Do we actually want the devs to finish a DCS module, and leave it…?
Sure, the EA/Alpha/Beta whatever you call it, is sometimes less finished than we would want, but it’s literally just a matter of time. You can still get a module at EA price and just wait until most showstopper bugs are fixed, before you play with it.
And this, people get all riled up about… I have never understood that, as those who know me are very aware of
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I don’t think there was any specific incident, and I think he just dropped off a lot of social sites at the same time and concentrates on doing the producer role at ED and videos etc.
When company reps (or any well known maker) do post here it’s pretty much a lose-lose situation for us in the long run. A short play, in 3 acts:
Company Rep: Hello everyone!
New Sign Up Member: Screw you and your game!
Moderator: Please be nicer to Company Rep.
New Sign Up Member: I knew it, you’re censoring me and my freedom of speech! Mudspike is in cahoots with Big Sim! Screw you too!
Fin
While it would be great if everyone could post what they like, we often get stuck as a public soapbox for people’s complaints, and then there’s literally no good solution whatever we do. Because it’s regarded as ‘Neutral Ground’ then the companies often think we don’t moderate quite enough and those with complaints about a company feel we over-moderate. So basically the natural state is that everyone thinks we suck. 
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Yes, I’m sure it’s what FF said. I’m wrong.
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