More Dcs Mission Editor Question

[WreckingCrew]

My advice is to just set up a Radio Menu to select missions 1, 2 or 3.

Once triggered, you can then immediately remove the Radio Menu selection, or remove it when the objective is Dead.

And you can play your favorite objective as often as you like, while thinking on how to make the other two objectives ‘better’.

I know you wanted random, but with three or more objectives you would be getting into Karnaugh maps. It is quite possible - I did it in DCS.

I made a couple of missions where the objective is based upon the altitude a client flies to after take off.

Another way to do your objective is to have three zones over top of each other and a Random Flag that selects the detection zone. Use Random Flag < x for the other objectives.

[weaponz248]

I’m thinking of making it a little less random.

So fly into the zone and get a random tasking and then once that group is dead it spawns another and so on.

However that still dosent help with the spawning of a group you have already killed.

I can set a flag once a group is dead and then it wont spawn but the the mission would just stop.

[Sryan]

You could make it so that when you complete an objective, another flag will be activated. Rather than directly activating the random objectives directly with the first trigger, make an intermediate one that first checks if the objective has been completed. You could make it so that that trigger will hand out the objective if you haven’t completed it yet, or it will send you back to receive another task if you did.

[Hangar200]

So, something to consider…and please apply a large grain of salt. Typically a flight will get a tasking, and that is what they will do. When they are done, they will go home. No further tasking.

On call CAS? OK, I’m not as familiar with it but even if they didn’t Winchester on the first task, I don’t see them as doing another? At most one more. Gun ammo remaining doesn’t count.

Refuel and rearm? The jet may get turned around but unless it is a real emergency—as Slim Pickens once said, “Nuclear War. Toe to toe with the Ruskies.”—I see another crew taking it out. Why? Crew rest aside, a major part of this whole evolution is the debriefing; not the DCS debriefing window, the real debriefing. This is the start of the BDA process; called Battle Damage Assessment. BDA is the main determining factor as to whether a restrike is needed. So you want that first phase of BDA, called Bomb Hit Analysis (BHA; Did you hit the target? Did the munition go high order? Were there any secondary effects/explosions?), completed ASAP.

All that said, I fully understand that DCS is meant to be fun. So, yeah, taking a couple of different tasks in a single hop is challenging and cool. Personally, I wouldn’t go beyond 3…which might save on the Boolean work.

[Hangar200]

Is it me or is it practically impossible to kill an Mi-24 on the ground? I’ve blown the tail of one and had it on fire 3 times and still could not get the Unit Dead trigger to trip.

[Sryan]

most helicopters are difficult to ‘kill’ on the ground. I usually check if they’re damaged and haven’t moved in a while to count them as dead.

[weaponz248]

Oh trust me I know they wouldn’t fly it the way I want.

All though we did do a bunch of training ICTs (integrated combat turn), but never in real world.

I just want something that can be random and keep me busy for a while. That’s all.

And even if they didn’t winchester they would come home after the patrol.

[Hangar200]

@Sryan

I usually check if they’re damaged and haven’t moved in a while to count them as dead.

Copy that. However, if the helo’s demise is the whole intention of the mission, I need to get the engine to recognize it as dead.

A couple of ideas:

• Use a static object help - much easier to kill.

• Put a small object (a cargo object set to not cargo) next to the help. It needs easy to kill/damage but not that easy to hit. Set a trigger that if it is dead an explosion goes off. You can either have the object itself explode if it gets damaged, or the helo explode if the object is killed.

The problem with that second method is the helo. There is evidently no “Uncontrollable” option for helos. If left to its own devices, it will take off. You can set fuel state to 0% and it will stay put (Side Question: does the program consider fuel state when “exploding” a unit? I’ve had fiery crashes after I’ve flamed out so I think the answer is “No”) Or you can activate the helo when you are a few km out. This will allow it to begin to start up which makes it look more alive than a static object.

I’ve also tried to limit the fuel to 1% but it is still able to take off.

EDIT: Evidently my spell corrector doesn’t understand “helo” thinking it is “help” - so if it says “help” I meant “helo”

[Sryan]

@Hangar200

Copy that. However, if the helo’s demise is the whole intention of the mission, I need to get the engine to recognize it as dead.

In that case, rather than simply counting it as dead in your trigger mechanisms, you can also use “explode unit” upon damage detection. If you set the explosion volume high enough you can outright vaporise the helo, making sure it is counted as dead. A rule of thumb I use for the “explosion volume” is that each unit of volume seems somewhat representative for 1kg of explosives.

@Hangar200

The problem with that second method is the helo. There is evidently no “Uncontrollable” option for helos. If left to its own devices, it will take off.

Depends on what exactly that you want. You could indeed use statics if they satisfy the mission requirements. If you want helos sitting on the ground but with running engines and perhaps a chance of escape you could make them take-off from somewhere nearby and use the advanced “land” command to make them land at a certain position and stay landed there for the amount of time as commanded by the land command. If the timer expires, the helicopters will take-off again and continue to their next waypoint.

Note that I am not talking about the land function we typically use to make aircraft land, but the one in the advanced waypoints action drop down under “perform task”. It’s the same area where we usually set up the threat reactions, communications channel switching, formation flying etcetera.

[Hangar200]

@Sryan

Note that I am not talking about the land function we typically use to make aircraft land, but the one in the advanced waypoints action drop down under “perform task”.

Ooooh…going to have check that!

@Sryan

you can also use “explode unit” upon damage detection.

I tried that - “UNIT DAMAGED” trigger and it works. However if even a single bullet hits the helo it goes bang. Kind of like…

I have tried using a Group Alive Less than trigger, with a single helo in the group and set to even 50%. Nothing. The target helo, a Mi-24, will be sitting there, on fire with its tail boom completely blown off and still nothing.

This logic works great with single round vehicles and ships and I’m pretty sure it works with airborne aircraft. But not an aircraft on the ground?

In the process I think I have “discovered” a subtle programing nuance that can be important. It seems if you set a UNIT DEAD trigger to an EXPLODE UNIT action, it will not work. I think this is because a DEAD UNIT is removed from play and therefore cannot explode…which makes sense.

[Sryan]

@Hangar200

However if even a single bullet hits the helo it goes bang. Kind of like…

Oh so you’re going in for guns? In that case, consider using “unit hits” then. There’s a handy counter function allowing you to dictate the amount of projectile connections required to destroy the chopper.

I can already imagine your next remark is going to be that you now not only need X projectile hits to destroy the chopper, but also X bomb or missile hits unless those weapons outright destroy the chopper in the first place. You could work your way around that by tying a “Missile in zone” or “bomb in zone” to the “unit damaged” condition. If we imagine your weapons platform has access to an internal gun, an AGM-65D or a Mk. 82 you could make something that looks like:

[“unit hits”, Hind, 12] - - 12 is just an example for the hits you need. It can be any number you desire.
[OR]
[“missile in zone”, AGM-65D, Hindzone]
[“unit damaged”, Hind]
[OR]
[“bomb in zone”, Mk.82, Hindzone]
[“unit damaged”, Hind]

in order to trigger your explosion. I do immediately have to make two remarks. First is that in DCS, triggers check if their conditions are true approximately two times per second. This means that if your ordnance is traveling at 300 metres per second (ground speed), your trigger zone should be atleast ~155 metres in diameter (a little extra to be sure). The 2nd is that there is probably no instance where “bomb in zone” and “unit damaged” are true at the same time. So you’ll probably have to make my system a little more complex by first making a system that checks for missiles or bombs, activate a flag when that appears to be true and then start checking for damage on your target.

I’d also limit the number of payload options to save yourself the boolean work

[Hangar200]

Copy all and before I write anything more, Thank You very much for your time and patience with me.

Actually the UNIT HITS was the forest trigger I used. I could never get it to work. I wasn’t sure if it was “operator error” or a glitch with the latest Beta version.

This is what I was doing:

My aircraft Mi-8 armed with S 8 KOM and UPK-23-250

Trigger:
1 ONCE (Helo Damaged)
UNIT HITS (Hind #001, 3)
EXPLODE UNIT (Hind #001, 100)

(Note: Through some testing I have found that an EXPLODE UNIT Volume of 100 is a good level)

After rocketing and staffing Hind #001 ad nauseam I quit and took a look at the debrief where it reported many individual hits and several (more than 3) hit “events”.

I have tried other numbers of hit from 1 to 10+. Same result.

I shall try again as I think this is the best way to do it. Just one quick question: It is my understanding that the weapon being fired doesn’t matter with regard to the Hit Counter…i.e. that fragmentation from a missile strike and an actual hit by a machine gun count the same, albeit the missile strike may produce more “Hits”. Is this so?

Copy on the DCS trigger checks frequency. That will help in another trigger. I have been setting up “alert zones” around MANPAD SAM sites using the MISSILE IN ZONE and SA-18 GROUSE. They key a Sound for the group–the Mi-8 Flight Engineer calling “SAM Launch!” Its seems to give you enough time to hit the Flares. I took a guess at the size of the zone - this information will make it more accurate. Thanks.

@Sryan

So you’ll probably have to make my system a little more complex by first making a system that checks for missiles or bombs, activate a flag when that appears to be true and then start checking for damage on your target.

That should work and I may try the if I cannot get Hits to work.

[Sryan]

@Hangar200

Copy all and before I write anything more, Thank You very much for your time and patience with me.

I’m happy to help!

Before I say anything further I need to yell stop the presses! I found the condition you actually want. It is called “Unit’s life less than”. It allows you to set a percentage of health that needs to be removed in order to proceed to the action (and thus explode the chopper). I recalled this was possible, I remember that it used to be called “unit alive less than” but couldn’t find it anymore. I could see that it was still present on the hoggit wiki, so I decided to search a little more and then found it! It’s further down the list. I did a quick test with 90% and it worked with a reasonable burst of 20mm.

@Hangar200

I could never get it to work.

It looks like you’re right and isn’t functional right now. I landed 131 hits of PGU-28/b before outright destroying an Mi-24 while my trigger should have only required 5. I then decided to try to multiple burst and see if the amount of burst connections was the required number, but that didn’t work out either. Since we’re drawing the same conclusions here I think we can chalk this one up as being non-functional for this purpose.

@Hangar200

that fragmentation from a missile […] Is this so?

This one is actually high up on the wishlist for many players, including myself. But fragmentation is currently not modelled. The only two types of damage a projectile can deal right now is the direct hit itself (and an associated effect, such as a HEAT warhead), and area of effect damage (blast/pressure wave damage). As far I’m aware all effects are rolled into a single registered hit. So if you’d fire a Hydra with a Mk.5 (HEAT) warhead and produce a direct hit, you only get a single event and a single hit despite producing direct HEAT damage as well as area damage. I hope that fragmentation damage is introduced when the improved damage models start to become implemented on more advanced aircraft, as well as introducing more complex mechanisms such as expanding rod warheads.

@Hangar200

Copy on the DCS trigger checks frequency.

good luck and have fun with designing the mission and flying it!

[Hangar200]

@Sryan

Unit’s life less than”. It allows you to set a percentage of health that needs to be removed in order to proceed to the action (and thus explode the chopper).

Awesome. I am working it in now.

@Sryan

Since we’re drawing the same conclusions here I think we can chalk this one up as being non-functional for this purpose.

Concur. That said think I have possibly discovered an interesting phenomena when it comes to attacking aircraft–at least helicopters–on the ground.

Situation: An AI helicopter on the ground using a “Takeoff from ground” type and no other waypoints. If you do this, for the Mi-24, it takes around 3 minutes to start engines and take off. If you attack it before it takeoff, it is evidently still in a “pre-takeoff state”…that may have significance.

When I tested this–starting from the ground–the Hind was not really “killable” - i.e. after enough hits it would register as Killed and the pilots would “Eject” to stand idly by the fuselage. But it wouldn’t really die! The engine would stop, would come off and it sometimes caught on fire for a while. But it wasn’t dead / never exploded. Its Lable remained and any triggers to see if it was dead never triggered. (Insert Monty Python “I’m not dead yet!” joke here )

I know (unfortunately from first hand experience) that an aircraft can be destroyed (blow up) on the ground after it has landed.

The question: Are there different parameters regarding an aircraft on the ground that had been in flight and landed vs one that has ever been in flight? The answer appears to be “Yes”.

Using @Sryan’s tip about the Landing Perform Task Command, I started the Hind (the AI target) in the air (low and slow) set a WP 1 close by (20m-ish) and set that to Perform Task - Land, with the landing spot where the Hind was previously on the ground. Then I attacked it. The UNIT HITS triggers were active.

This works… in the sense that I could destroy the Hind. I have tested this 4 times. 3 were successful. 1 was not.

The UNIT HITS trigger was active for the 3 successful tests. However, UNIT HITS still does not work. If I hit it enough times it did explode. The Debrief screen registers a “Crash”. T. hat said, the UNIT EXPLODE was not triggered (I had a Message to All also tied to that trigger). So it was a “normal” kill / crash.

I removed the UNIT HITS and was unsuccessful. This makes no sense. What I think actually happened was that I took to long to “kill” the Hind - its rotors had stopped and the aircrew may have ejected. So perhaps, when it gets to that state it can no longer “crash”.

I was going to do some more testing to prove the above but now that I have the UNIT’S LIFE LESS THAN trigger, testing and using that has priority. I will leave in the starting parameters for the Hind - i.e. start in air and land, as that makes more sense to the scenario.

[Hangar200]

UPDATE: UNIT’S LIFE LESS is the key!

That said, did a series of tests with a couple of UNIT’S LIFE LESS triggers, using them to explode near by static units so I could see how things were happening in the Debrief. i.e. UNIT’S LIFE LESS 95 for the target Hind, “Static Unit 95” blows up and is recorded in the Debrief timeline.

Using a 95% (and later an 80% figure) as the level to explode the target Hind, things went as expected. First the 95% trigger would activate, then a bit later the 90% trigger would activate and the Hind would explode (Crash in the Debrief)

But then I added a “Static Unit 90%” set to explode when the 90% level was reached. Most of the tests were again as expected: First 95% then 90% and Boom; Hind destroyed.

But on a couple of runs, the damage inflicted by an attack (rocket or strafing run) was sufficient to cause the target Hind to explode (crash) on its own! Yep, in the Debrief timeline it had 95%, Crash, and then 90%. OK, the last two were in the same second but it is a good result - the program doesn’t get hung up on checking if a Unit is below a LIFE level if that Unit is already dead.

Anyway, this is definitely the way to go for attacking a grounded helo. First Land it with the Landing Perform Task. Then set a UNIT’S LIFE LESS trigger to something around 75%-80% (at 75% I noted one run where the tail boom had been blown off but it was still not below 75% ) That’s it!

Let the Friday Night (social distanced) Happy Hour begin!

[Hangar200]

Is there anyway to remove a Static Object with simple triggers? Or do I need to use a script? If so, a short script? (I have a destroyed vehicle (static object set to Dead) with a Smoke/Fire effect (static object). I want to have a firetruck pull up and “put out the fire” by removing the smoke/fire object.

Not strictly a ME question but will involve a bit of ME work if the answer is “No”. Are the SA-18 and SA-9 modeled as rear aspect only?

[Franze]

Static objects can’t be deleted currently, though it would seem to be a growth goal as the command is there in the triggers.

SA-18 is modeled as all aspect, SA-9 is treated as rear aspect.

[Hangar200]

Trying to do something…

Both the Mi-8 ad the Huey have a radios that can home in on a transmitter. Cool for locating troops, SAR, etc.

For a ground unit, in Advanced WP Actions, you can use give it a frequency, call sign, and set transmit in a loop. As the vehicle moves, so should the “transmitter”

Or you can use a trigger to set the transmitter at a zone (placed at the vehicle) - put everything (freq, sound file, power) into a Radio Transmission trigger action. Only issue is that it will not move.

Ships do not have the Advanced WP Action options that ground vehicles do. Ships, when not in port, are in constant motion. I want to have a beacon move with a ship.

I’ve worked through the logic … can’t get the zone to move along with the ship using triggers…don’t want to get into MIST or beyond…looking for a simple Do Script or Do Script File that will either move the zone, or add the vehicle Advance ed WP actions (set freq, transmitter message) to a ship.

Thoughts?

[Franze]

Ships can do the activate beacon command; could an alternative be worked in using one of them?

https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_command_activateBeacon

Alternatively, the transmit message command is listed as able to be used with ships, which I believe is the same as the transmit editor action. The only difference is you would have to use the frequency set to the unit in the editor.

https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_command_transmitMessage

[weaponz248]

Does this help any?

DCS World Editor - Creating Moving Trigger Zones