Official 5th Annual Mudspike Christmas Flight - discussion thread

That’s a nice livery, including little details like “Rift S equipped” :smiley:

2 Likes

Both are really nice. I found the EMB-110 a bit easier to start-up and get going with (just from a pure throwing switches perspective).

Have finally finished deciding upon which planes I will be using for my flights. I’ll start out with FJS’s 727-200F for which have created a nice livery.


…and have conducted ted a test flight over OBX’s Washington HD scenery.

If I need to get into smaller airports along the Aleutians, I’ll jump into Carenado’s Do228 which I have also created a matching livery.


I have also installed the RealityXT Garmin 750 …

…and taken it on a similar test flight.

Just about all ready to go ! :grin:

12 Likes

That 727 looks amazing fun

1 Like

Well I was hoping to add my first leg into the AAR thread earlier today but…

While the FJS 727 v3 is beautiful and works very well in VR, its fuel consumption model is AFU. I planed out a 477 Nm trip KPHF to KCHA. According to the weight & balance screen, I had enough fuel for an approximate 850 Nm flight - roughly 22,000 lbs

I had a MA my first attempt, flew the published MA and about 5 Nm from the airport, I flamed out.

I’m thinking that there is something seriously wrong here. Especially since FJS claims that they automatically add in a standard reserve amount so even if I had planned for 477 Nm, it would have added in 30 minutes extra - so 14,410 lbs…I would have fallen out of the sky somewhere over SC.

Fuelplanner.com has an FJS 727-200F entry and with their robust reserve, (1:15) they are only at 16,940 lbs…so plummeting to the earth somewhere in northern Georgia?

I think I’ll use the standard 727-200 entry (26,363 lbs) and try again.

…unless somebody has a better (free) fuel calculator.

3 Likes

I don’t know about that Planner site. Just for giggles, I put in the Citation II from CLT to BOS and it spit out numbers that were exactly HALF of what would actually be required. It came up with 1491 lbs. required (no reserve) when it would definitely be more like 3,000 lbs. So take that with a grain of salt.

Not sure what altitude and Mach # you planned for either…those obviously have big effects. Also your start and taxi time - those can change your fuel planning if you take some time to get everything going.

1 Like

I use Simbrief As my planning tool. it works out your block fuel all based upon flight plan (inc alternate) based upon airframe.

It’s free (donateware).

I put in your flight and it came out at 28,232lbs assuming FL320 CRZ at M0.82 with an alternate/divert to: KATL.

3 Likes

Way back in the day…FS2002 I think…maybe FS2004…there was a 727 (Flight1?) that had the whole fuel calculation spelled out–APU, Taxi, TO, Climb, Cruise, Descent, Landing, Divert and Holding. I did a couple f “serious” flights, where, just as the manual said I should, I logged fuel usage throughout the flight and compared it to the calculations. There were close–differences probably due to my ham-fisted flying techniques.

It was one of the first manuals I PDF format but I printed it out, and kept it! Darn if I can find it now. :slightly_frowning_face:

I followed the FJS recommendations for speed (M.78; every thing else I have seen is the 727’s economic cruising speed is M.74) and altitude minus a 1500 ft (they wanted FL345 I went with FL330…shouldn’t ave been too much difference). And, as I mentioned, according to the FJS pop-up weight and balance menu, I should have been good for 800+ Nm. Yeah-right.

Besides that “minor” discrepancy, the FJS pop-up weight and balance menu doesn’t load the fuel correctly (AFAIK from other 727 sims). Going back to that old MSFS 727 manual, you load more in the center tank than you do in the wing tanks. For TO, each engine pulls from its own tank. Once a good climb has been established, the FE sets up for all three to pull from the center tank. When it is time to descend or when the center tank level matches the wing tank levels, you switch back to individual tanks for each engine. The FJS loader keeps the fuel level (weight) each tank the same…you have to separately add/subtract fuel from each to set it up correctly.

I’ve found the online fuel planner to be a last ditch WAG for calculating fuel. The numbers @BeachAV8R and @Sine_Nomine got do not surprise me. I think the figures for some planes are better than for others…and I note with interest that they sometimes distinguish between sim developers’ models of the same aircraft type. :thinking:

Anyway, I tried the first leg again and this time landed with fuel to spare. More over on the AAR thread in a bit.

2 Likes

Only you would know for certain if this site has the manual you remember @Hangar200.
Flight Simulator Checklists: Flight Simulator Checklists

Wheels

1 Like

That’s not the one I remembered but wow! What I great site. Thanks!:slightly_smiling_face:

I thought this might have. even it…
http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/Previews/727/preview_downloads.html

…but no joy. I’ve got a closet and a garage to look through.

1 Like

It IS an affliction isn’t it?? :rofl:

Yes. That was awful to see. :frowning:

Would the “new guys” even know how to do that? :rofl: (I had a guy ask me…seriously…what DME hold was for on the NAV radio a few years back…)

I’m actually surprised that is an altitude the 727 could go to for some reason. I would have figured it to be a mid 30s airplane…but then again, turbojets are actually more efficient at high altitude than turbofans…so it stands to reason…

All the large flight attendants provide service to the aft passenger cabin…all the waifs get First Class… :rofl:

soupe1

3 Likes

:slightly_smiling_face:

In the spirit of your curiosity, I put your flight into Simbrief to see the numbers it comes up with.

Here’s the results:

Block fuel recommended would be: 23,304 lbs due to the alternate added of SKAR. Contingency of 15 mins.

The FP calculates a burn of: 10,104lbs so slightly higher than what your actual was, but the recommended cruise flight level was lower at FL320.

500lbs or thereabouts saving… enough for you to siphon off and put in your yacht. :crazy_face:

1 Like

Alas, mine runs on diesel.

I notice that the fuel is configured with each tank feeding it’s corresponding engine. i.e. the cross feed valves closed for Number 1 and 3; Boost pumps on for Number 1 and 3. (for those unfamiliar with the 727 FE panel, see below)


Ffrom my pervious 727 sim, this was the fuel configuration plan that I recall:
Take Off: Fuel tanks 1,2,3 individually feed engines 1,2,3 (as shown above)
Cruise: Cross feed from fuel tank 2 to engines 1 and three by opening the cross feed valves on number 1 and 3 and turning off the boost pumps for fuel tanks 1 and 3.
Descent or when amount remaining in Tank 2 (in lbs) is approximately the same as the amount remaining 1 and/or 3. Fuel tanks 1,2,3 individually feed engines 1,2,3

For this to work the amount (weight) of fuel in tank 2 must be higher than the amount of fuel in tanks 1 and 3. Tank 2 is much larger than 1 and 3– 32,000 lbs as compared to 12,000 lbs–and may be considered the “main tank”, i.e. 133% greater than 1 and 3 combined. Obviously once the remaining fuel in tank 2 is equal to the individual amount of fuel in tank 1 and tank 2 (separately; not combined) then you go back to the initial configuration for equal fuel flow from all three tanks.

This is where the FJS fuel loader is less than helpful. It loads all three tanks equally. (I assume once tanks 1 and 3 are full it continues to fill 2…haven’t checked that yet.) I may be way off base on this. I can see a rational for loading all 3 with equal weights (and separate feed configuration) up through tanks 1 and 3 become full…but…

That said - let me thank @Sine_Nomine and @BeachAV8R for looking into this. Nowhere but Mudspike does this kind of great help exist. :slightly_smiling_face:

EDIT: Just ran the Fuelplanner.com numbers for my next leg KCHA-KSGF. For a normal 727-200 if shows 25,862 lbs. For the FJS 727-200F it shows 16,544 lbs - so a 9,282 lb difference…that seems like a lot.

3 Likes

Trust me, it will very, very happily burn JP5.

3 Likes

A post was merged into an existing topic: Official 2019 Mudspike Christmas Flight AAR thread

A post was merged into an existing topic: Official 2019 Mudspike Christmas Flight AAR thread

I made the same mistake :slight_smile:

1 Like

I think this year. I’m going to gatecrash random posts throughout the site with my reports. Keets’ Xmas treasure hunt. Find the AAR. :grin:

Thanks @fearlessfrog BTW. :+1:

3 Likes

I’m inching closer to Melbourne so i need to start planning this flight.

I’m still undecided about what aircraft to pick.

I’ve bought each module so far with a gradual learning purpose in mind (Super Cub for tail dragger, PA-28 Turbo Arrow for constant speed prop and radio navigation, Duchess for multi engine etc.).

I’d like to continue in this vein but pick something a bit faster to give me a bit more legs. Ideally it would be a good learning platform for something, be it victor airways, a new type of engine (turboprop / jet) or something else.

The TBM 900 looks nice and would probably be really good. My hesitation is that it’s an all glass cockpit and I think I’d like to keep flying the traditional six pack for now. I’d also like to move away from using GPS as a crutch the way I’ve done so far.

I know, just another indecisive “waah what module should I buy wahh” post…sorry about that! Just thinking “aloud” here. I need to do my research and see if I can find a module that fits the bill. Maybe a slightly older turboprop.

3 Likes

Maybe the Airfoil Labs B350 or the Carenado PC12 with the Reality Expansion Pack ?

5 Likes