What we are driving

Hangar Flying
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American friends.

I need your help. I have my little transport business in the UK and I run a very tidy and well looked after Toyota Hilux 3.0D auto. Its nearly bullet proof but it struggles at higher weights and I’m looking for something more …substantial.

I’ve priced up a new hilux which is at a fairly reasonable price but has the same issue I am facing now.

Empty running (which at the moment I do a fair bit of) I get roughly 23-24mpg which is pretty decent. But when I put a load on the trailer and tow the lot, especially a big load like a horse box or a caravan this drops DRAMATICALLY down to 13-14 sometimes lower. So my average mpg is roughly (as of this second) about 19-20mpg.

Now this is only going to be compounded by the fact that I’m doing less and less empty running as I have a great backload source which keeps me loaded most of the way back to base. This obviously means that my average MPG is going down and down job after job.

Now a new hilux is actually a slightly smaller engine at 2.8L instead of 3.0 and also needs Adblue as an extra which is another added cost. I also think that the problem off weight will be the same or even worse.

Now I’ve been chatting around a few dealers that I know and I’ve been offered a couple of American options that are pretty interesting I would like some opinions if possible as this is a bit of an unknown quantity with me and I’m trying to be as sensible as possible for the sake of the business.

Truck 1 is a 2019 1500 Ram with 4k miles on it 5.7 v8 petrol with factory lpg conversion. I’m not too interested in this as although LPg is super cheap here I worry about finding places to fill up and the longevity of a petrol engine worries me.

Truck 2 is a 2019 2500 Ram with 6.7 cummins diesel in it. Frankly its a bloody beast of a thing. Airbags on the back and loads of towing extras which will be extremely useful to me. The weights we carry over here will mean this Truck is pulling a seriously light load compared to the US and will be very understressed indeed. Its also a bit cheaper than a brand new Hilux and the wow factor of it being quite a unusual vehicle over here will only help the business.

The thing that worries me is that the dealer is insisting it will do 16mpg average until run in then will get better and better until its doing around 18-19mpg. Which means it’s better on fuel loaded than the hilux.

I’m not an idiot, I know my way around trucks etc. But while I understand that Empty running would be less economical in the Ram because of the engine size and the weight and dimensions of the vehicle, would it really be better LOADED than the hilux. Because if it is then with my increased loaded mileage it would make sense. But obviously I’m trying to find out before I take take the leap.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Cummins or otherwise?

The dealer let me hitch up my trailer to the ram and the increased size of the truck means it HAS to be better aerodynamically against the load on the trailer but I am super skeptical of the increased weight. But the fact the engine is going to be barely working at 60mph and carrying very little of its actual designed towing and carrying weight kind of makes sense as well.

Long story short. I gotta buy another Truck. Either that or the tax man has a load of corporation tax coming his way next year. I’d rather buy a vehicle I can work to death relatively economically and have the option to move heavier stuff than spend the money on a brand new version of what I already own and have the same fuel problem.

It’s all about fuel. My whole bloody life revolves around diesel prices and range anxiety.

Help me…

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182

I’m more of a car man myself but my wife has always had trucks. A couple of years ago we bought a used 2015 Dodge RAM 2500 Diesel ‘Laramie’ for towing a camper/caravan, general hauling etc etc. Nothing like what you are going to be using it for of course. I don’t drive it much but my wife uses it a lot and loves it. Overall it has been very reliable and the things that have needed to be fixed have been quickly addressed under the extended warranty that we purchased when we first got it. The main concern I would have in your shoes is what level of support is available for a Dodge truck in the UK? Here in Texas it seems EVERYBODY has a truck. There are dealerships/service centers everywhere as well as independent diesel shops. Does Dodge have a good support network in the UK these days?

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What about some sort of 7 1/2 ton truck with a tow attachment … That way you have the flatbed and the towing ability

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Yep that’s not an issue here like it used to be, we have a smallish main dealer network and a very comprehensive import and export trade. Any normal part same day, unusual stuff within 3 days.

It’s just the fuel I’m worried about. The hilux is a cracking motor its just working pretty damn hard relative to what a US truck would be. Its quite a substantial car for the UK but it was dwarfed parked next to the 2500.

My issue is that I WANT the ram. My head is saying get another Hilux. Stick with what you know and stomach the increased wear and tear and Adblue costs for the security of the brand.

However it’s now a 2.8L (with a bit more power admittedly) so it’s going to be working even harder than my current truck and I feel that’s going to take a toll on my fuel consumption. Especially loaded with a tall windsock of a caravan on top of my trailer going up hill.

I just have this feeling that it will average out to be roughly the same or cheaper with a ram. But I don’t know for sure.

With the lorries the bigger motors ALWAYS do better on fuel than smaller stuff. Always. Plus even if I do say so myself I am a very efficient and fuel conscious driver (especially now I’m paying for it)

It’s really difficult. This is a massive gamble and I dont want my heart to rule over my head but I’m utterly convinced it would be better to have a massive over sized diesel doing hardly any work vs a smaller more efficient engine working it’s nuts off for 800 - 900 miles a day.

It’s actually giving me a headache thinking about it.

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Thats another thing I looked at but the other costs such as become a proper operators license holder, the cost of a base to keep it (again licensed) and the road tax being over £1200 a year is what’s stopping me there. It would be handy to have a little lorry about 2 days a week at the moment but my pickup based business is so much more “mobile” plus I can drop the trailer and use the hilux as a normal car.

It’s properly scary commiting to the unknown. Bloody tax man is doing this to me. I’d rather just keep my meagre profit and not give him anything but apparently that’s “illegal” :wink:

So I gotta get something. Just don’t want to buy a massive American tank and be stuck doing 12mpg when the dealer says 18. I’m not expecting 18. But would be nice to say “yes it’s definitely going to be on a par with the Toyota” before I commit

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I’m sure you are well aware, but be sure to factor in that an Imperial gallon is more than a US Gallon (1 Imp gallon = 1.2 US Gallon). I suspect that most of the figures you see online will be in USG.

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I hadn’t actually factored that in as I was skeptical of looking online at marketing stuff. That is an extremely valuable point you just made @PaulRix thanks

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That 0.2 adds up! :smiley:

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This site ran a test on the 2017 RAM amongst others…
https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2017/05/2017-ram-2500-diesel-proves-its-fuel-economy-prowess.html

Empty/Loaded Average for the Premium Truck Challenge

2017 Chevrolet 2500 LTZ Midnight Edition (6.6-liter V-8 Duramax): 15.1 mpg
2017 Ford F-250 Super Duty King Ranch (6.7-liter V-8 Power Stroke): 15.2 mpg
2017 Nissan Titan XD Platinum Reserve (5.0-liter V-8 Cummins): 15.4 mpg
2017 Ram 2500 Laramie Longhorn (6.7-liter inline-six-cylinder Cummins): 16.2 mpg

16.2 mpg X 1.2 = 19.44 mpg (imperial gallons).

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Thing is I think you might of just seriously just put me on the right track. That little bit extra I hadn’t factored in will be the difference that makes it uneconomical.
If its doing 18mpg US
Then the difference makes it definitely less on average than the current or new hilux. Even if I factor in the cost of adblue and increased wear and tear it has to make it cheaper to have the toyota

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Wait. Hold on I’ve done that the wrong way round haven’t I.

It would be MORE economical to have the bigger engine.

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I think so :wink: .

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Something else to consider…can the Hilux tow up to the max capacity of your trailer? I would bet that the Dodge can. It would certainly be safer (at least I would think so).

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I think your case is quite clearcut. You need the diesel RAM. Go big or go home. You want to, you have a great use case for it and multiple arguments in its favor. Go ugly early.

Disclaimer: I loathe the dodge ram. Here in .nl it is only driven by fascist assholes who have something they need to compensate for. There’s this one dude who us3s one to bring his kids to school at my kid’s school. It fills the little street, pushing cyclists aside and being a huge, senseless menace. F that thing.

However, for you it makes sense economically and even environmentally. Looks matter as well and the sheer power those things radiate makes a lot of sense for your line of work.

make it so star trek GIF

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Again another good point. My hilux can currently tow up to 2750kg plus trailer. If I get the new one I can tow up to 3.5t plus trailer. However the Ram will tow the same weight, but as its designed to tow 6 times the weight in the US it will be so under its max weight over here that it will be barely working at all. That means at the UK max towing weight it will be barely feeling it. Hence I’m sure that I can get better fuel economy out of it than advertised at the expense of slightly worse Empty running (which I’m mitigating by getting more back loads and running empty only 20% of the time rather than 45-50%)

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I actually TOTALLY agree with you on this. They are not environmentally friendly and far too big for our roads. They genuinely have no use outside of the US for private drivers other than “extensions” like you say. But as a commercial towing motor I can see the sense. But literally the only thing stopping me is the risk that I’m being played by the dealer over the consumption.

I actually work for this dealer delivering his stuff so I’m fairly sure he’s telling me the truth but…you know car salesmen.

Plus If it works the way I hope I will actually be using less fuel than the hilux (I’m not sure about emissions) but less fuel has to help a little bit

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Sounds like you have a plan then. Also, if you do work for the dealer, I would like to think that he wouldn’t try to sell you a dud. Oh, and our 2015 Ram 2500 uses DEF… I’m guessing that is the same as Add Blue? IIRC the 2014 model was the last one that didn’t need it.

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Seems like it. It consists of urea and a few other things.

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I’m not sure but it certainly sounds the same stuff. I’ve been told the new Hilux (and Ford ranger) use up to 10L of it per 1000 miles which means another significant cost (10L = £12) ever other fill up of diesel. Its hard work trying to be economical these days because of emissions legislation.
The price of fuel over here is SAVAGE. I spend an absolute fortune on diesel every week and even if I can save 5% or even 2 or 3 % it’s going to add up big every month.

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image1662×1247 1.13 MB

Our typical load… probably way more truck than we really need. In the UK I remember my father towing a caravan that size with his car and that was pretty normal. Over here the consensus is that you need a truck and preferably sway bars too!.

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