They are about as close as the throttles are, so 1 sec is absolutely within reach.
I was just thinking that 0.1 sec would probably mean that the pilot who flipped them probably used both hands.
But ”01 sec” probably means 1 sec…
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Juan Browne gives his view on the prel. report.
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i think in the context of where this was written they where still doing time stamps.
They probably should have just wrote the time stamp of each movement.
08:08:42 Engine 1 fuel cutoff switch moved to cutoff
08:08:43 Engine 2 fuel cutoff switch moved to cutoff
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Agree.
Anyway, one second is plenty for one person, using one hand, to shut them off.
Question then is…why?
Collective suicide is one reason.
Having a stroke?
Juan Browne suggests the switches being moved inadvertently. Possible, I guess, but it feels unlikely. Unless the switches were very worn.
And I still feel that the question ”why did you” and the reply ”i didn’t” seems…wierd…?
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Worn or broken is possible but not plausible in my mind. Both switches moved at seperate times.
Dosent have to be collective, one pilot would have had his hands free after V1.
Very weird, but could it be used to throw suspicion off?
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Yeah. A delay of 0.1 it could be possible, but not when it happened at two different timestamps.
I didn’t mean they had agreed to go, but I guess that’s a remote possibility too.
Some people want to off themselves, but doesn’t want to go alone.
I guess these pilots lives will be scrutinized in great detail, by a number of shrinks.
Sure. That makes more sense to me, rather than actually wanting to know why, there and then.
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Is this another datapoint to support going back to a 3-man (individual) cockpit?
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We have similar switches for stuff like Battery, Avionics, APU Start/Stop, etc. Have worked with them for many years in many airplanes, including some rather tired examples. Have you ever seen one become worn out to where it could jump the guard stud without being pulled out? I honestly can’t say I ever have, curious if anyone else has.
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The modern Boeing switches are nicely designed. I like them better than the ‘bus. The Airbus switches are flat. The Boeing switches are round with integrated fire lights. Both the Airbus and Boeing switches are identical in operation. Pull up aft and release, overcoming a spring. Pulling both within a second is easy. Doing it unintentionally is unlikely to the extreme. If I had to guess, and mine is probably the same guess as most of yours, the FO pulled the switches, tge Captain noticed, asked and placed them back to Run. IF, one wanted to end it all, that was the exact time to do so without killing the other crewmember.
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That’s very chilling.
Is there a reason fuel cutoff operates with the throttles open? Surely you’d want to switch fuel off with the throttle closed? (Not a pilot, probably a dumb ass question)
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I confess to wondering the same thing mate
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Does that makes sense to you?
Honest question.
I mean, if you noticed roll back on both, saw the fuel shutoff switches in Cutoff… Would you ask why your FO had done it…? I’d expect a whole litany of expletives, but not “why?”
It doesn’t add up.
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According to Brownes video, the preliminary report mentions a service bulletin about worn switch guards.
But inadvertently shutting off both switches, a second apart, makes no sense.
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Or…a datapoint for, you know…removing the human from the equation.
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Wouldn’t remove, just relocated and involve more into the process. Software engineers can do malicious things too.
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The link I saw mentioned the solder balls under the switches getting worn, and also a TSB to change the switch types as well as inspecting the solder connections, which theoretically could fail under a g-load due to acceleration.
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It does because, when stressed, a human’s first reaction is disbelief. That’s why US military teaches “wind the clock”. Just take a couple of moments to process the situation before doing something rash and stupid. (Obviously that technique doesn’t work in this tragic case). So verbalizing the question is verbalizing his own disbelief. He needed a second to come to grips with what the FO had done (In my fantasy speculation) before fairly quickly placing the switches back to run. In my mind it makes total sense. (But my mind I’m told is a musky, dusty rather disorganized place.)
I don’t fly the 787 of course. But the switches are identical on all modern Boeings. They are very stout. In 30 years of hard use (maybe) they might need some TLC. But not on a 787 that cannot be more than 10 years old. Guys I will be my mother’s virginity that it was not a mechanical issue. Electric…maybe? But not the switches themselves.
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It’s no different than a mixture on an airplane. If you are a front seat passenger in a 172 and you REALLY would like to visit the trees at the end of the runway, pull the mixture. Maybe the pilot will react in time. Maybe he won’t. Same thing. OH WAIT. I get what you are asking. Sure, in airplanes you want everything to work all the time, logical or not. OK, the gear won’t raise on the ground so that’s a rare exception. Everything else you want to work. No engineer can think of everything. So any safety concept will come with unintended consequences (think “MCAS”). If the thottle lever got stuck full forward you would appreciate that the engineers let you kill the engine with the switch.
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It should be noted (and Juan mentioned this too) that the report doesn’t specify who asked why the switches were cut. Ergo, we don’t know which of the crew members potentially touched the switches.
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True we don’t. I am making a string of big and likely wrong assumptions. One, it was a suicide (plus mass murder of course). Two, the pilot flying has his hands on the throttles and is a very focused on the flying. That makes it quite effective, if suicide is the intent, to do it as pilot monitoring. For the pilot flying to reach down for the switches means he must do so under the watchful eye of a hyper-vigilant pilot monitoring. But really the result will be the same from either seat.
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