I am still fully in the “cold dead hands” mode in my love for VR. The Quest 3 has only strengthened it. But I do get the desire to be untethered. I only play MSFS that way using my XBOX and get a little giddy with the freedom found sitting on my couch with nothing but a controller. And to further the argument against VR, just last night I was playing X-Plane using FSEconomy. It’s been so long since I’ve played FSE that I had forgotten about the separate app. I fly X-Plane (yes, I am stupidly complicated when it comes to sims) back away from the desk with VR controllers. The problem is that the FSE app has to know when the flight starts and stops. So it was some crazy juggling between the headset’s passthrough as I leaned forward to work the app. It’s a PITA for sure, made all the more so by my weird way of flying.
The perfect VR sim that avoids much of the pain is FalconBMS. As most know, that sim is as much about campaign management as it is about flying. Like X-Plane, BMS can be switched easily between 2D and 3. So all the management can be done with the screen and only the flying needs to be in VR (or not, user’s choice).
To conclude, I am never totally giving up on VR. Already the new Quest3 has taken some of the PITA out of VR. It’s use is practically seamless. And the passthrough is just good enough to view the 2D screen. But I’d say it is NOT yet good enough to read a manual or Chuck’s Guide without eyestrain. Next generation perhaps.
I really like the Q3, and agree that it’s a generational leap towards seamlessness.
One thing I’ve started doing is instead of using passthrough or lifting my headset to work the 2d screen, I just use VD’s desktop mode (easily switchable in-game by holding down the left controller menu button) and immediately have a massive screen in VR. Makes it easier to do desktop tasks and work 3rd party apps while alt-tabbed from DCS.
The passthrough is great for reading a text on my phone or checking what the kiddos are up to, but yeah it’s not enough for reading a book or manual. The VD desktop is though, and reading with it is frankly easier than leaning over to see my monitor.
I feel that a Strike Fighters 2 type sim in VR really would be perfect in that it would scratch that itch for flying planes we like without having to get too involved in the minutia of learning every button and switch.
It was kind of why I enjoyed the bush flying aspect of X-Plane so much. Simple planes…looking out the window…and just enjoying VR and flying. Apparently while I was on hiatus Aerofly 4 FS came out too (what happened to 3?)…so I’d like to check that out too. Aerofly 2 was so smooth in VR…but had a dead feel to the airspace.
I was away from VR for a long time this past year and a half…and when I came back to dabble in it…I’m still just amazed by the technology and the fun once I’m in game.
Me, I’m an odd duck. I like tweaking a machine. Getting my hands dirty.
I vividly remember having to learn a lot about comouters in order to coax DiD’s Tornado or Falcon 3.0 to run on my dads old pc. I had to, or little s hurem wouldn’t fly. So I did. And I learned to love it.
So when my G2, DCS, the OS and the haptics hardware all need a little tweak here or there and a “false” needs to be made true in some deeply hidden config file to get the janky contraption to lurch into motion, hey game on baby. I just wish I could do it all in linux…
Y’all realize that nowadays, with tha’ Quest 3 you can just tap your headset twice and you are back in the real world, able to read your manuals, then… Tap-tap, you are right back in tha’ sim?
I was reading stuff on my phone today and never took off the headset.
This is why I only fly the Viper in “combat”…I have the Viper hardware and knowledge. All other modules are joyrides for the visuals only. Once set up for a combat mission, there’s not much to touch except to fence in and out, and it’s easy to master the “muscle memory”
Yeah. This post isn’t intended to knock VR in any way. I appreciate that there are alternatives and tools that can be used to make the VR experience better. And I would be the first to champion VR and the benefits that it give a virtual pilot. These are just thoughts that I am having as I struggle in deciding to put money into VR (new GFX card, new headset, etc) versus putting money into cool hardware like the WinWing F-18 up front controller and MFDs, with the coming F-16 ICP - which are mostly useless in VR (well, that can certainly be argued ).
I really enjoyed building my flight setup but I find that it is at odds with use in VR. There is no way that I can use the VR hand controllers as I keep hitting all the hardware that I have scattered around me.
Yeah, you have to either use muscle memory, or mouse. No way to manage the VR hand controllers and HOTAS at the same time haha.
I don’t necessarily agree that that stuff (ICP, UFC, MFDs, Startup Panel) are useless. I’m having a great time using them in VR in the Hornet, as they’re close enough to 1:1 to just work.
Hand jamming the UFC to rapidly put in a series of coordinates, and flicking switches in VR that match the physical position IRL is incredibly satisfying, and makes flight simming incredibly immersive.
It does take some work and lots of thought into getting the geometry right though, it’s not easy to arrive at the correct setup. Not sure that it’s worth it if you play more than one fighter regularly. I’m having an affair (turning from a dalliance to more like a mistress) with the Tomcat, and half of me really wants to begin building a Tomcat simpit setup. Despite not having even close to enough room in my home.
ETA: Agree with those suggesting mapping mouse buttons/scroll wheel to the HOTAS would likely be the easiest. I’ve got a trackball in my simpit that I use, but having it on the HOTAS would be nice.
Maybe the question can be boiled down to one of immersion. Isn’t that what many of us seek? Yes, some want to excel at PvP air combat. But I’d say a much larger chunk of the sim community are looking to be immersed to the point of disbelief suspension. VR helps achieve that. Hardware also helps achieve that. Augmented intersection of the two is still years away. So today, it is a hard choice where one cancels the other. The hardware solution is probably more compelling of the two for the most motivated player. For him or her, VR is not the right tool…yet. But for someone like me who wants a minimum of physical controls, VR is a good choice. It isn’t perfect. But for now it is good enough that I easily forget that what I am doing isn’t real.
I am one of the people who can’t imagine going back to 2D for any reason. I was fairly sceptical when I heard how finicky VR can be but simply sitting in the P-51 in VR and turning on the engine was all that was needed to convince me.
I used to have the manual on a second Monitor while learning a new module but the way I learn new modules now is by watching a few videos or reading the relevant chapter of the manual and taking notes. I then create a checklist and put it in my kneeboard so I can have it open in VR. I also don’t do everything at once and often a closed beta tester has already flown the module for a couple of weeks and gives an introductory lesson. The first things are always a cold start, take off and landing. I then learn to operate one system at a time, that way learning a module already fills my evenings for a couple of months before I start to fly it in missions. I also have a few favourites that I am concentrating on.
This way I never had any problems with learning stuff in VR.
I am currently more or less proficient as a pilot in four modern(ish) jets and one helicopter:
F-14 (only if I have a competent RIO, I can’t stand managing Jester)
F-16C
A-10C II (like riding a bike)
F-15E (human WSO is great but not a necessity)
UH-1H
I am also confident in my abilities flying any of the Warbirds but of course I do have my favourites (Anton, Jug, Mossie) and can fly simple missions in the Apache.
Basic handling of the F/A-18C, Mirage F.1, MiG-21Bis, L-39 and Mi-24P is also something I can do without consulting the manual but I would never chose to fly them in a mission that demands good knowledge of their systems…
Considering that I own every module except for the JF-17 and Christen Eagle it doesn’t sound like much but it’s still a lot of time spend in DCS and it doesn’t leave much time for any other PC games tbh.
I do have TM Cougar MFDs and I have managed to place them in a way their position corresponds to the A-10C’s MFDs in the sim but even in the F-16C and F/A-18C I can use them without much trouble although it’s not nearly as easy as it is in the A-10C.
Clickable cockpit (DCS mainly for me) + Elecom left handed trackball works well to avoid the squint-around-your-nose-at-the-keyboard (if that’s even possible with modern headsets!)
I share with you many reasons, for me caused by very limited time being a parent. However instead of dropping VR, I actually switched to WT, il2 and VTOL VR because with these, the control scheme is much simpler, while flight physics is good enough to enjoy VR multiplayer fights for the 1-2 hours in the evening without spending millions of hours learning, setting controls, troubleshooting performance and organizing people for a meaningfull multiplayer like DCS wants from you.
So maybe instead of abandoning VR, try different game … yeah I know … heresy.
).
