DCS 2.1 on steam

Seems like an obvious hurdle in the path of the 2.5 merge has been cleared. Could it really be near?

Second question:

I am too busy to game at the moment, but do the NTTR/Normandy keys from stand alone carry over to steam?

No nothing from Standalone carries over to Steam, and (I might be wrong on this one) it doesn’t work the other way round anymore either.

interesting.

There’s a bit about it in the FAQ:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/500/#1510447

Yep, it did before May 2017 - Steam keys worked on Standalone, now they doesn’t. And that is bullcrap. My Steam FC3 which I bought few years ago works in standalone but NTTR bought in their e-shop will not activate on Steam. So now they force me to use stand-alone for future purchases or buy NTTR again on Steam (I prefer playing on Steam).

Also Steam was neglected by ED since they deemed Steam release as “polished” so you had to wait years for the beta modules to appear on Steam, again forcing you to buy on their store if you wanted something early. It’s no excuse - Steam games have Beta branches so they could have used that for not-finished modules if they wanted.

I’m hyped for Tomcat and Hornet but I wonder how long after stand-alone release will it appear on Steam?

I don’t blame them, Steam is an extra costs center and doesn’t add much of a benefit for them since they are mostly aimed at a flightsim crowd that is already very capable of finding them. It’s annoying yes, but you can just as well add the standalone DCS to steam anyway.

Also keep in mind the decision to separate keys from standalone and steam was not motivated by ED, that was a decision pushed by Valve.

Why should Valve host ED downloads for free? The use of third-party Starforce keys uploaded manually by the Valve rep each month (via a text file!) was something done for years and was meant to be temporary. Part of being on Steamworks is using the DRM of Steam, while DCS uses Starforce 3rd party keys. You can’t use the massive marketing place to advertise your product, get free (and faster) downloads and then expect just to sell in your own store.

Steam recommend using their steamwork keys, which is what ED is doing today. The new DCS module purchases do not include Starforce keys (NTTR, Mirage etc).

I hear so much misinformation regarding Steam and it just gets ignorantly repeated until people think it is true. The whole ‘But we can’t sell alpha software on Steam, that’s what Valve said!’ to ‘We can’t have the Alpha on Steam, it only supports a single version!’ to the ever reliable ‘It works slower on Steam!’ (it’s the exact same version numbnuts, it uses an existence of a text file to hide the module manager).

My favorite was always ‘Why won’t Valve release an update to DCS!’ when it’s completely within ED’s control of what and when to release. Can you think of why it would be better to delay if you sell something on your own store? Valve don’t push the release buttons for the 5000 odd vendors and their games, the vendors have a complete self-service control panel to do what they want. You think Gabe vets them?

Steam is a service for games studios to sell and distribute their games. If you go and duplicate that effort of selling and distributing on your own then you are now in both the games business and the market/distribution business. A lot of games companies do better concentrating just on the one they should do best.

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If it’s extra cost without benefits why use it then? You know why? Because benefits are HUGE. Being seen by potentially millions of Steam users should be enough justification for it’s presence on the platform. And I think that’s the sole reason why the game is on Steam - marketing reasons. If they put the free base game on their site only, how many would have played it?

Adding standalone to Steam IS NOT the same as proper Steam version. By adding the executable you only launch the application through Steam - meaning you will have Steam overlay (Shift - Tab), and that’s basically it. With proper Steam version you can download and update your game through Steam, have technical support and community hub for it (forums, screenshots, videos etc.).

I don’t think they want any of those through Steam, on the other points I think @fearlessfrog has it nailed down in his reply.

It’s just convenience having DCS on Steam. I’m just bummed that the Steam gets everything with huge delays. I bought NTTR standalone, because I didn’t knew when it will appear on Steam. The same case with future modules. I most likely get Tomcat and Hornet on release which means I buy them from their store, I wont wait for their appereance on Steam in 2 years or so. ED is basically depriving me of using their platform on Steam due to my “can’t-wait-syndrome”. :frowning_face:

You see, there’s the mistake. You either use ED’s platform, or you use Steam’s platform. You can’t use the ED system on Steam, which make sense, Steam is expensive for them and probably doesn’t add that much given that they’ve tried it for a couple of years and ended up focussing on their own platform first.

I can see the convenience factor though, but I understand developers opting not to use it.

The problem is that the Steam and ED-store version could be identical if they wanted. Keeping the Steam version behind is their way of killing it off.

Well they probably pay a comission on every copy sold on steam, so why would they not add an incentive for people to not buy on steam?

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In my view they keep Steam version behind so majority will be forced to buy on their e-shop, if they don’t want to wait for Steam releases (they have to share the revenue with Valve on every Steam sale). So for them is more profitable to sell on their site obviously. They use Steam primarily as advertisement outlet. But it’s their property and they can do whatever thay want with it. I get that. The ways they operate are just not sincere. But if that’s what it takes to stay afloat these days so be it…

They are not lying to anyone, they only want to put largely finished products up on Steam. I think it’s pretty sincere in the way it is done.

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I never said they were lying to anyone. They do what they do while being vocal about it and I respect that. The way they do it is what bothers me.

Edit: Maybe I phrased my last reply wrong, sorry but English is not my mother tongue.

My only wish would be that both versions (standalaone and Steam) were treated the same way. That’s it. There is no technical reason it couldn’t be achieved.

Team, we are not going to discuss the moderation of other sites here. The point of this community is not to degenerate or disparage how anyone else chooses to operate their take on the community - that is not the positive energy that we want to promote.

I am going to remove some of the posts above. That is not an attempt to silence discussion or suppress dissent - there are other formats for that. If anyone has a problem with this, please let me know in a PM and we can discuss it.

I think it is incorrect to attribute malicious intent to an action when there are simpler explanations. I know that the Steam review and publishing process is a pain and adds delay in getting new updates out. We all know that there are scheduling challenges and difficulties and adding an additional channel to funnel these updates into might make the problem worse.

They way I look at it is this. If I want the stablest version of DCS, I go to the Steam channel. If I want more frequent updates and access to features and modules earlier, then I go to the ED channel.

When it comes to the financial side, I have less experience but I do know that there can be challenges with regards to license integration. There are also challenges that are hidden from us with regard to the requirements that Steam integration might impose - when you publish on Steam you agree to abide by their terms and this goes with the percentage cut they take of all sales. Any of these can be a hidden technical or financial hurdle that maybe ED can not accept.

I think that sincere is a strong word that implies deceit, dishonesty or lying. I think that it is easy to argue that business, financial or technical decisions come nowhere near that.

I apologise if I am picking yours words appart @damson. I have a tendency to do that and it may come across as being harsh. I do not intend that and I apologise if it feels that I am singling you out.

The only thing I don’t understand then is how other devs manage to do this on Steam: CAP2 has several builds - stable, VR, and beta each available through Steam. FSW has updates every week (more frequent than DCS ever had), so if those small teams can jump those hurdles ED surely could too.

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