DCS 2.7 AIM-120 Experiment

Might have to just hobble the enemy AI with limited loadouts or less effective missiles. I mean…whatever it takes to drag the balance back I suppose…

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Gentlemen… Do we need to go through Boelckes Dicta…again…?
Pay attention to points 3&7. :face_with_monocle:


Missiles…

Ryan Gosling Reaction GIF

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I think you’re on to something, @fearlessfrog. I opened the mission in the editor and saw quite some things affecting the AI decision making. I removed some of these but told them not to fire beyond rtr. I also bolted on AIM-120C5’s instead of the old B’s. That didn’t cause any substantial differences. I also replaced The 18 with 16 with a full complement of AMRAAMs. They suffered pretty much the same issue but were more productive. I’ll have to install tacview again to see what is really going on, it is as if the missiles loft but don’t come down or come down too late.

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It would be interesting to see someone win this mission and how they did it. I took out 5 (!) using AIM-7’s and a pair of 9’s and we still lost.

Russia too strong! :hammer: :slight_smile:

The game needs a “hold fire” command for the Flight so you can get your wingmen into that no-escape zone. Of course, that also puts them at the mercy of the return fire…but at least the initial volley will be a bit more fair…

Of interest (or not) - if you change all eight aircraft to F-15Cs, they wait until much closer to launch their AMRAAMs and the resulting volley killed 5 RED for 0 BLUE losses. Once merged, RED killed two BLUE…but the end result was BLUE losing 2, RED losing all 8…

Platform programmer verified ex-Air Force and not Navy… :rofl:

AF2

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So maybe the Hornet radar, even for the AI? Hmm.

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Just reran this with the latest open beta patch (2.7.1.6430) with all the AIM-120C updates.

On just a single run it doesn’t seem to have changed anything, at least for AI vs AI. Still a massacre by the reds, as every 120C missed. I think an AIM-7 hit, so that made the final tally Red 7, Blue 1.

I’ll see if the TWS with semi-human vs AI works a bit better now.

Argh! You had me excited with the post in the other thread… :rofl:

I think the AI probably just RWS’s, so we might be more effective (or not) - we’ll have to see. To HAMA!

Here’s my results with 8 vs 8 Hornet vs Flankers fight-

The first volley of AIM-120C’s fired from long range scored 3 kills. The second round killed 4 more flankers and then the surviving 4 Hornets hunted down the last remaining flanker for a sidewinder shot.
The flankers managed to down 4 Hornets with R-27ET’s. Blue 8, Red 4.

I reran this several times and Blue wins every time. One run it was more even with final tally being Blue 8, Red 6. The first round of AIM-120C’s only scored one kill on this one.

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Thanks for doing that. I just ran it the once but that sounds much more encouraging. I’ll run it some more.

Also, do you tell the flight to engage or just leave them to it. I think I did an initial ‘Engage Bandits’ and probably shouldn’t have.

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It’s all AI with just CAP mission tasking. I’ll play around with it some more also but it does seem much better. I just recall getting annihilated in the Viper with none of my 120s hitting anything :laughing:

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Given today’s big AIM-120 modelling update, thought I’d rerun this. Recap:

  1. Use DCS 2.7 latest.
  2. F/A-18C / Instant Action / Caucasus / BVR 8v8
  3. Arrive in the cockpit. Do a ‘Flight → Engage → Bandits’
  4. Just sit there and watch the F10 map, make it a 7 vs 8.

Russia 8, USA 3.

The R-27ER’s seem a lot faster and with better tracking. The US fires 120’s about 7 seconds before Reds, but the 27ER’s make up the ground fast. The US kills were with AIM-9s.

I edit the mission to make all the groups the same altitude and speed, as the stock mission puts the Hornets lower/slower.

Ouch, nope, that just helps Red.

Ok, editing it to try AIM-120 C’s instead (it defaults to 4xAIM-7, 2xAIM-120B, 2-AIM-9 and I’ll change that to 2xAIM-120 C5 instead).

USA 4 Russia 8 (or rather 7, as I just sit there watching the map)

Maybe a lack of AIM-120 C’s? Ok, let’s load them up and see how they do… :imp:

Closest result yet - USA 5 Russia 8.

So what to think, (reminder: this is just AI) but it doesn’t look like the new 120’s are Super Missiles or anything outrageous. A flight of 8 multi-role Hornets flinging missiles will struggle against Red fighter air defense, at least with AI driving.

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Nice repeat of that test…! Interesting to see the tweaks weren’t real game changers.

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ED has made several adjustments to the 120. Seems like it’s better, but not the finger of god that some believe it is.
But what about the R-27? Is it perhaps overmodelled in comparison to the 120? Is that what you’re seeing in your test?
The Viggen fights with speed, altitude (or lack thereof) and rear aspect heaters, so WTH do I know about miracle missiles? Just reading about your test while having my morning coffee. :coffee:

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I have been launching them at bots and they seemed plenty deadly to me. But from the amount of bots that died to alamos in your test, frog, itseems they plain suck at bvr. Should be no contest.

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Can you do that same experiment vs the Jeff?

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I can’t as I don’t own that one. It’s not because it’s French :uk: , it’s just I never got around to it. :slight_smile:

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I thought it was the lovechild of a Pakistani-Sino hookup.

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