Oh yes. I’ve spent the last 3 years dealing with this. Some of it is a really simple fix too (I know the ‘math’ is there). DCS has 'wowed" me with the graphics, compared to, say, 20 years ago. I’m waiting to be wowed by the AI - something that will last, and be applicable to every module/map, for, well. ever.
And not for the first time I’ve wondered if ED has “War Thunder Envy Syndrome”.
The online world is chaos - but they get the AI for ‘free’. It is what will finally get me to hang up combat flight sims. Anyway, that’s why I’m trying to create my own sim-within-a-sim, with little knowledge.
“You [have to] make your own fun” - Eagle Dynamics CEO. My emphasis added.
I’m going to migrate [back] to BMS in the future with some regret (variety)…or do 1-G boring in MSFT FS/X-Plane… There is no other choice for single player - a dying breed?
Yes, I’m a dinosaur. But one with the funds to spend on this pastime if the motivation is there.
I think you’re right, the multiplayer community is very very vocal on the DCS forum and Hoggit etc, so I can understand the temptation to push back things like the AI (and finishing the first-person pilot models for the A-10C and Fw-190 A-8 that we paid for all those years ago!) that are time consuming and people will likely attack even if they’re pretty good (the AI is not pretty good right now! But compare to IL2 and even BMS where the AI pilots work fine for the game, but allegedly you can still beat them easily using unrealistic tactics).
I do really appreciate the work that ED and the various third party devs have done to make two people working together in one jet a fun and largely trouble-free experience (within certain limits). But I agree the AI needs work, particularly for offline play and for the allegedly upcoming campaign engine!
‘Dogfighting’ isn’t my Jam so much; when I need that fix I just throw up 2 (or 3) of the AI, turn & burn util I run outta gas. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Going against other humans is cool, but that is, to me, too narrow a focus. I get bored with it. Again, just me.
The AI BFM/BVR should be passible. I’ve heard it was getting better but not sure how that went. I’d rather they under-performed than over (MIG 28 F-5’s!).
Would seem that giving the AI more advanced flight models would be expensive performance-wise so I see why they might err on the side of being less capable (compared to a human; just throw up more of them).
Mostly I want my AI wingman to be more than window dressing, or another pretty face [collection of polygons and texture maps]. The UI could (and by now probably should) be updated.
The non-aircraft units could be just a bit smarter too.
Even a LITTLE of either of those could go a long way. And tell us what they are ‘programmed’ to do so we don’t have to spend weeks/months trying to figure it all out. That really gets old.
Having “bad” AI just seems so short-sighted. The ROI isn’t likely big [enough].
Yeah WW2 is basically the only AI improvement I’ve seen so far, but they still occasionally try to go vertical. I recall there being some BVR improvement in the jets a while back, but last I did some large-scale PvE stuff it seems to have vanished with AI dodging AMRAAMs in a perfect notch while waggling their wings at sub-250kts, sometimes from shots within NEZ. Su-34s being the most egregious, requiring an average of 9 slammers from 2~3 fighters to down one of them. Su25As are also very difficult to BFM against for some reason, though they have a habit of CFIT’ing when you drag them down low.
The terrible AI is why I’m usually flying very sterile training flights, range days, and COIN like Apache Hunting Ground; really wish we had equivalents for that on every map for some more variety.
The AI in Il-2 BoX is no better. I’m routinely frustrated by the enemy “ignore AI, go after the player” logic, the inability of my wingmen to bomb anything well (although they can strafe ok) or cover me worth a damn, and the sheer cliff face of difficulty maintaining formation with your AI flight that either easily outrun you like you’re sitting still or fly so slow you have to drop flaps just to stay with them while either way they can out accelerate you when they want to.
I haven’t flown F4 since the F4:AF days so I’m unfamiliar with it in BMS. I saw the latest update trailer and it looks like the graphics are finally going to look more like Il-2/DCS did several years ago instead of like F4:AF. Might be willing to load it up again when that happens, although I have so little time for simming that loading yet another one seems a waste of time.
Yes, I’ve noticed the WW2 AI are fighting a little smarter. IME, one thing that they like to do is drag you back to their base. In other words, they look like they are RTBing, but if you break off the attack to stay out of their AAA, they come back after you. But maybe that’s just my low SA.
Sadly also the AI A-4E will refuse to attack the Invincible or the Leander-class frigate. So much for a Falklands War scenario on the South Atlantic map…
I hear you on the BoX AI, but I think their bombing accuracy is probably pretty accurate for the period
Don’t bother with Falcon4 unless you’re going to sink some time into the campaign, IMO that’s where the real fun in that sim is (aside from just poking around in the latest BMS build for nostalgia reasons, in which case it’s always going to look a bit worse and feel a bit more clunky than the more recent sims…)
Accuracy is one thing. Them flying over the target area with me and leaving the bombs on their wings and acting like they’re performing an airshow for the enemy is another.
This makes me wonder if it’s even worth it for them to be working on their dynamic campaign engine. How is that going to work if the AI is still all wonky?
I know nothing about mission creation, but hearing you guys discuss makes it seem like even if it does a good job creating the environment, unless the missions are incredibly basic it’s gonna be pandemonium after 24 hours.
Don’t mean to come off too pessimistic, a working dynamic campaign engine, even with the simplest of missions is nothing to sneeze at. It’s just that when seeing (actual) years and years go by with you and others pointing out issues and nothing changing it makes me wonder if the effort will even be worth it.
Vehicular AI and Dynamic Campaign are NOT served by the same type of Artificial Intelligence.
There are two if not three (and willingly more!) different layers of AI when we talk about a full blown MIlitary Simulation with Dynamic Campaign.
You have the overall Strategic AI for the Dynamic Campaign to handle the big numbers, logistics and Theater Battlefield strategy (I am grossly oversimplifying as well)
There’s the Tactical AI that handles formations, OOB, and establish different types of tactical movement for the different component of an army while trying to satisfy the Strategic AI vision
and only then there’s the Vehicular AI that’s problematic so far.
That said, and being involved deeply in the creation of MilSims, all of these things can be worked on simultaneously…
Oooh Patch day in two weeks eh, sweet. I have barely scratched the surface with the phantom and hardly flown my kiowa in anger and then there’s the 'stan and the chook comin!
For sure, I guess that’s my hope really then is that they’re being worked on simultaneously - so that the strategic/tactical/whathaveyou levels of AI that are created have vehicular AI that can believably carry out the missions.
