I’m running my pitch and roll saturation at 80%, with 2% dead zone. Feels pretty good except the wipeout fails in the taxi tutorial. No biggie.
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1 hour under my belt and I ended up shooting ILS because current weather in the Marianas is sunset with rain and 2 mile visibility.
Takeoff was great.
Glideslope on approach was like a drunkard with her sinking like a rock on-speed, then floating away when I dropped the nose a little and added power. It’s like those J79s have excellent response time…except when you actually need it. Pitch is also super wobbly trying to get her on-speed.
Didn’t break anything but Jester told me we landed so hard his mustache doubled for eyebrows.
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Yeah, I still have a lot of trouble with my approach, it’s not very stable at low speeds tbh. I’ll shoot it a few touch and go’s today in the hope it clicks
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Not 100% related to the current discussion but in a more general way…
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I fly the pattern OK but NOT if I fly at donut AOA. In fact, that’s true of all DCS planes for me. Even around the boat, on downwind I not the speed which gives the donut on the indexer and add 5-10 knots. That’s the speed I fly. Totally not the correct way to do it but it’s WAY easier. At donut, the power requirements are huge and, because that AOA is slightly behind the power curve, the pitch instability (ie, pitch up increases sink/pitch down lowers sink) makes control too challenging for me. Flown incorrectly, she’s a ■■■■■-cat!
Decoupling pitch and roll may be overcomplicating things. If you are trimmed level, then you are trimmed for a relatively low AOA. Rolling into a 60° bank means that a higher AOA will be need for level flight. The Phantom, like all airplanes, is stable. With the stick released, it will seek its trim. In a bank, this means the nose will drop unless the plane is retrimmed in the turn.
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Doing the landing training mission I found the parameters it to be very stable, dead on the indexer on descent. I was also 1/2 mile N of the runway and fireballed trying to fly through pattern to fix my gross error in lineup in that configuration, so you mileage my vary.
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Regarding the approach issue, does anyone know if the AF F-4s are intended to fly the pattern at on speed AOA? My impression from reading about other AF patterns is that On Speed is a landing reference, not a landing requirement, particularly since you probably still flare a bit in the F-4E.
In naval aviation of course you try to trim on speed on downwind and keep it there. But, among other reasons, On Speed set you up for the proper Hook to Eye relationship…not an issue on a 10,000ft runway. I need to find a good AF pattern reference.
Also, this power response thing seems common in DCS. Do either the AF or the Navy/Marines, or both, fly Speedbrakes out in the pattern in the F-4?
I think all three of the carrier planes I flew landed boards out to put the engine in a better power response range. That alone would give you peppier engine response on approach.
I still do also find that, as good as it is, DCS (and pretty much every other sim) is kind of sloppy in trim authority. In almost any jet I flew, you could almost “fly by clicks”. Full fast or slow, 3-5 clicks of trim, slightly fast/slow, 1-3. And then maybe a click or two per pass as you burned off fuel.
Most sims feel sloppier to me, whether in Cessnas or Strike Eagles.
Just some thoughts.
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Managed a pretty nice landing just now. Straight in to Bodø, even Jester was happy 
Edit: damn, had the wrong audio channel open the whole time 
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From watching them as a high school-aged kid, they definitely flew a longer approach at Seymour Johnson AFB than the usual carrier pattern. I spent a day in the tower at Seymour when dad was the 335th Ops Officer and safety officer for a Saturday. I remember the Air Force pilots landing their Phantoms very smoothly. So, negative to AoA at touchdown.
Also, when dad returned from TDY at Kaneohe, he said that there was constant smack being thrown each way among the Air Force and Marine pilots about their landing technique. Lastly, I remember him saying on approach to add one knot for each kid and 3 for your wife, or something to that effect. But that seems to be universal. I guess BOQ inhabitants had to fly the doughnut 
What I’ve noticed in the DCS Phantom after flying a few approaches.
- Once that you get it on speed, the F-4E is pretty stable, but very unforgiving if you get slow. Better to be fast than slow, but do not be long. Go around if you have the slightest feeling of being long.
- It’s really hard to find that drag chute handle with a mouse while trying to stay on the centerline. Have a button mapped.
- I’m going to try a slightly flatter and faster approach than on speed, to see if I can get more authority at touchdown. That will mean being more aware of runway length though.
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Yeah, that’s about how mine are going. If you fly the doughnut to touchdown, you don’t have any pitch authority to hold the nose off.
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That’s probably not wholly unreasonable. On speed is pretty close to stall.
There is also the possibility that AF on speed is not the same as Naval On Speed. I remember to get the over the nose visibility for the boat the T-45 not only had to add slats, but also artificially bump up the On Speed speed a bit. This made her pretty light on the wheels on touchdown; an unintended, and undesirable, consequence.
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So the next question is why all the other analog planes in DCS don’t do this. I feel like the Tomcat and F-5 would be good comparisons to the Phantom, but the Phantom handles very differently than both in this regard, i.e. not responding to “flying the cross” as well as the Tomcat and Tiger.
@Deacon211 I had a quick look at the pattern diagram in the real -1 and it had “minimum 180kts” in the downwind, “on-speed minimum” in the base turn, and “on-speed” on final. I’m curious about boards out vs. in as well, since the -1 made no mention of them in the pattern. I’ll have to binge-watch some YouTube footage of the Japanese and Turk Phantoms I guess.
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The dihedral in the wings and anhedral in the tail have a not unnoticeable effect on the F-4’s handling.
You can’t really compare it to planes with relatively straight wings, and I think the rudder is very important.
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More than comparison, I was under the impression that not blending pitch/roll in maneuvers was a must to prevent sloppy flying and/or departures in old analog jets. The Phantom seems to require the opposite of that advice.
The rudder usage at low AoA is also confusing, as that should be handled by the ARI, no?
I really need to do some research on the fuel systems of this plane lol
I think i was just either complemented or insulted by Jester on a landing … apparently “If the runway was bread, I would be the butter” I am still not sure if he was saying it was smooth or he was saying I would be smeared all over it 
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I’ve probably conversed (ie, BEGGED for pilot porn) with more Co-pilots and Captains who were phormer Phantom pilots than any other fast platform. All confirmed, even in the newer versions, that rudder was a big if not the ONLY phactor in turning the jet when slow, including around the pattern. It really is like a J-3 that can do Mach 1+.
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When in doubt, always assume the compliment! 
I had a roommate in flight school who only heard good things…really made the whole debrief thing go much more smoothly.
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If anyone is needing the real F-4E flight manual that @Clutch references here it is.
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Been busy at work since the release. I tried to download the dcs update but it refused to do so twice. I had my computer downloading for 36hours while I was away. I will try again tomorrow and then try and download the F4. Frustration is running high as I will be back at work on Sunday. Still, I can fly our F4J sim as much as I wish.
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