As to the faking it, generally NCTR is IDing the engines of the jet, not any other features. That’s pretty tough to fake.
I think he meant faking the radar emissions so the rwr falsely classifies you.
Exactly In some conflict environments, no Mode 4 is sufficient. In a hot war with the Russians, PDRK, PRC, (who don’t have Mode 4) or a DCS MP session…if someone decides to take their Cessna for a spin in the middle of contested airspace…hope they packed a parachute.
In other environments it may not be enough. I recall being sent back to “Bagel Station” in early '87 and CBS news hired a plane to go out and look at the carrier…not the best idea…fortunately (for CBS news) in that threat environment, we had to intercept and VID the target as hostile before getting a weapons release…so in that situation, No Mode 4 would not be sufficient. So we intercepted the plane and waved it away.
Remember that the aircraft systems are giving you what their software “thinks” is the right answer. The ultimate decision to pull the trigger, or not, is made by the pilot’s wetware.
Which brings us to the next question. What happens in I high intensity conflict if a friendly aircraft suffers battle damage that knocks out their Mode 4? In the RW there are usually some Return To Force (RTF) profiles that the aircraft will fly…and if the aircraft is not NORDO, the “don’t shoot! don’t shoot! It’s me, Larry!…oh the humanity!” may help. Flying a RTF profile doesn’t automatically make it a friendly, but it does raise the ID criteria.
So I know that when I suffer battle damage in DCS, a number of systems will go off line. Is the Mode 4 one of the systems that can be knocked out. If so, it could make MP battles just a bit more interesting!
Haha That’s exactly why I quit discussing in the whole debate about IFF usage on some forums as something that’s set in stone and dependable, nice to hear RL stories about RoE and hardware interrogation Hangar200… It’s so much more interesting to have RoE with at least raygun or vid in sim play as well if you’re looking for increased realism or just a good sa challenge I think not sure about the current sop but I think IFF interrogation was actually silent above hostile territory in the nineties correct?
Edit: I was impressed with the link 16 implementation though, that must be such a wonderful tool for pilots, almost too powerful you’d think if it works as advertised given the caveats of the “old method” above.
A most informative discussion. So many things happening in DCS right now and planned for future. I’ve always wondered how the implementation of neutral countries in the mission editor will effect game-play during flight?
Be nice as a mission maker to be able to insert neutral countries aircraft, like civilian airliners into a map area and make it harder for the players to determine friend or foe, with penalties applied if they shoot down civilian aircraft. Maybe some day.
I think it’s possible to do side-dependent civil traffic and then apply penalties to the players only for shooting/killing those aircraft. If not overt in score, then in other mechanics like giving the other side certain advantages.
I think you are right. However IMHO it still would be nice to have some “civilian” type AI aircraft like Airbus or Boeing airliners, small prop aircraft like Cessna’s etc. to insert into the civilian airports and air spaces in our DCS maps.
Agreed wholly, and I do believe having an active Neutral faction is still on the books; but with the CEII and Yak-52, we can fake some civil light traffic as well as the small Yak jetliners in the game now. These will still register on GCI/AWACS as “hostile,” but I think that’s a fair tradeoff. Can even make things more entertaining by allowing player slots in these aircraft as spy/liaison aircraft!
Depends on the Mode…obviously having your Mode 3 respond-and provide altitude-when engaged in an air battle is counterproductive.
Mode 4 is military and encrypted. You cannot interrogate it unless you have the code in your radar. The question then becomes whether or not its responses to proper interrogation (e.g. from an AWACS) are exploitable by the bad guys-i.e. will it give away the positions of your aircraft? I cannnot answer without getting into classified info, so I won’t. Suffice to say that questions like that are carefully considered when crafting ROE.
In DCS, if Mode 4 can break due to battle damage, it will certainly make things more interesting in MP air battles.
Can the HARM engage EWRs in DCS?
Can confirm they don’t in SP mode.
There’s a pretty good mod for that. Not sure if it breaks integrity check or not though…
True story. I was visiting a pilot friend that worked as a weapons officer (WSO?) at China Lake flying VX-9 Hornets. I was taking pictures and one of the other officers came over and made me delete the frontal ones of the intakes on the Hornet. I don’t know if they were testing a different geometry of the intake or something…but I was pretty embarrassed. LOL…
Yeah generally taking close up pictures of US fighter jets is gonna be handled either by PR, or you have an escort there with you who knows what you can/can’t take pics of.
I wouldn’t feel too bad about it, you don’t know what you don’t know, and thats a pretty regular occurence, the issue is more on whoever let you wander around unescorted with a camera lol. Not to knock them, just you can’t be expected to know whats ok and whats not.
Yeah, I found a video on youtube once of a guy walking out to a Hornet at a civilian field and videoing the entire thing - to include sticking the camera down the intakes, crawling under the wheel wells, etc.
There’s no way he had permission to do it and whoever was working the desk at the FBO should be fired, there’s so many reasons to have an issue with someone doing that unescorted. The FOD risk alone from someone poking where they don’t belong is a huge concern.
I’m speculating, but wouldn’t what they have at China Lake be something other than your run of the mill Hornet? In other words, they don’t seem to mind at air shows people shooting a bunch of photos on the ramp.
On the other hand, when I climbed into the cockpit at the dome in Lemoore, they pulled a classified box from the panel which a tech told me was related to the AIM-9. This was early 90s.
Theres a difference with on the ramp at an airshow, and taking a zoomed in close up of a particular feature or down the intake of an aircraft.
Pics of the aircraft itself are fine, high def pics of serial numbers, specific features or antennas, is probly not gonna be ok.
I suspect that @BeachAV8R is correct that they may have been testing some sort of “thingy” (the technical term) in or around the intake. No reason to be embarrassed. If you were not supposed to take a photo of something, somebody should have told you ahead of time. Which reminds me…
[Insert Flash Back blurry effects and harp music][
…back during the “Big One”, the Cold War, a Soviet Navy research ship made a port visit in Alexandria, VA. I was working in the Pentagon at the time so a bunch of us intel folks from the office go over to see if we can get a tour.
With us was a fairly attractive female petty officer (IS2). Her presence seemed to open doors for us–going places on the ship we didn’t think they would have (should have) let us see.
So we are down in the engine room and I spot one of those big diagram control boards for the engines on a bulkhead…“that might interesting” I think. So I motion to this gnarly Soviet senior engineering petty officer who was absolutely smitten with our IS2 (he actually kissed her hand) that I would take a photo of him and IS2. I had them stand next to the control board and I take the photo…
I am a lousy photographer…I completely cut off the Soviet dude and half of IS2…but got the entire control board in the frame…go figure…
Are we talking Civilian attractive, or Navy attractive?
A couple of my best friends on the ship were the former, and they definitely got us into places we probably shouldn’t have. One was a Chinese language CTI who got us into some interesting clubs in Hong Kong.