DCS G Blackout Tolerance

I’ve heard around that ED is planning to work on the G-tolerance. I don’t know the status but, FWIW, I had a thought…

Outside the realtime dynamics, use the pilot log to record and update the tolerance. Some algorithm that increases or decreases it based on the frequency of flights? Say you fly every day for a week; your tolerance goes up a smidge. Conversely, take a month off and you’re back to the newb condition. Simulate a level of fitness I guess - conditioning.

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I think that would have to wait until after the new dynamic campaign, then they can gut and redo the “virtual pilot” portion of the sim so that it is more compatible between SP, MP and the dynamic campaign etc. Right now you can’t really select the pilot profile quickly etc.

For example maybe we’d want a pilot profile to lock in to a specific dynamic campaign. Then the campaign may end if the pilot dies (an option, like it is now) but you can’t change pilots mid-campaign even if they can survive by user option of “no death”.

At the same time you would want to be able to select a pilot when starting a MP flight, which should not be able to die as all kinds of MP issues could make that experience otherwise miserable. As well do the MP pilots stay with the player/DCS accounts - so you can take them to any server? Or do your stats get kept on each server separately?

At the same time in SP, they could potentially set things up where training missions are locked out and open up sequentially as a pilot profile completes them or “qualifies”.

I like the idea of pilot stats improving but that definitely requires ED to really rebuild the whole RPG aspect of things in to the game, which @Franze has talked about before in other discussions. A wishlist item for sure, we just need some foundation first to put it on top of.

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I guess you would also have to make sure people actually put some load on themselves, otherwise they’ll just put an A-10 with external bags on altitude hold for a few hours before proceeding to “pwn noobs” on 104 air-quake or something.

I’m all for introducing and expanding on role-playing elements and gamifying our simulators. I would love to have something that gave me something like an air-force career (I.E. starting with the yak-52 and/or L-39 before proceeding to more capable equipment). However, I’m a bit wary about meta-game elements that can enhance performance in the actual sim. A lot of us here lead busy lives with careers, family, hobbies and traveling (depending on how much COVID affected that). Should ED punish us because “we’re not making our 180-200hrs per year as real NATO pilots do”? If we would dabble into competitive multiplayer, other players would be at an advantage not only because they might have more time on their hands to spend on simming, their virtual pilots are “buffed” in their capability, further leveraging those players an advantage. Finally (and this one is extremely dystopian to me personally), what if we stopped logging in our favorite simulators to have some fun while flying, but to get our hours in to meet our daily/weekly/monthly cap to sustain apex performance?

I don’t want to come off as too negative. I think ideas like these could really help DCS forward. As delighted as I am that every year or every other year we get a new “the best simulated representation of military aircraft XYZ”, I would happily supported a development shift away from “perfection and accuracy in physics” to “feeling like a human fighting in a war that is fought by humans, even if some or most are represented by AI”. Having traits, even (and perhaps especially) on player pilots could really help with that feeling. Having G-tolerance as a variable could be one way to do it. I’m just not very keen on the idea that advantageous variants of those traits are rewarded on a time- or effort (grinding) investment.

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Excellent argument.
For single player it should be an option when a campaign or “career” (requires a new “career” mode) is started to allow stats to change over time. This isn’t too difficult I think.

For multi-player it should be a server configured option where the reset could be based on a mission (run multiple sorties without death for a minor buff), or based on a server restart (sort of like a weekly campaign bonus), or a permanent ladder type mode, exclusive to that server though.

I think if it transited between servers it would get unfair fast - but that is in PvP. In a PvE server, players bringing pilot profiles from SP in to the mix isn’t as big an issue.

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I’ve often felt like G tolerance is a fine line that no sim has walked successfully. Every one feels to me like far too little or far too much. I just turn it off in a sim that has you black out too easily because the AI never seems to be affected by it.

Perhaps they always fly perfectly at the edge, perhaps it’s just not factored in, whatever it is, if my opinion is that my vision blacks out too easily for an experienced pilot in a given plane, I just turn it off. Especially if they model instantaneous g and sustained g the same way. I shouldn’t be blacking out at 6g if I gradually increased my turn into it!

Of course, I never fly PvP and never will, so I care nothing about that scenario, I suppose as long as everyone is on a level field it matters little.

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All very interesting. I come at from a 99.99% single-player approach. Never considered the competition aspect (as I’m not interested in that at all). There are people that will try and cheat - that’s just a thread of humanity we’ll never cut out.

Seems it would give some incentive towards: landings == takeoffs. And it might be a ‘special’ profile.

The tolerance value would be based I suppose on how many times and for how long you went beyond, say, 4+ G. And how long in between. I mean, those of you that understand physical conditioning know better than I that there’s a ‘window’’ there: too much too often = injury. Too little to seldom = no progress. Hmmm…already getting complicated :slight_smile:

Without some kind of Black out and damage model that remains consistent across all modules the MP competition aspect might remain a bit of a joke.

In Folds of Honour they restricted players to the aircrafts actual G limits (with a 0.5G buffer) and you lost a round if you went over them. Nice idea because real pilots always (try to) stay under the limits for many good reasons but a there were a few morons on DCS forums thead wouldn’t shut up about these limits.

If you turn off the Black out modelling then you will see F-15s sustaining 12 - 15Gs no problem…which kinda makes a mockery of the whole thing IMO.

so a G model based on max asymmetric G limits that can be enforced on a server would be my preference and they should be just enough to get players to fly in the limits.

Greying the screen before the high limits could give a player notice they are near the real aircraft/pilot limits.

So e.g:
10G blacks out after 5 seconds.
11G blacks out after 2 seconds
12G+ blacks out.

And likewise an aircraft with a 7G limit where the pilot only trains to 7G shouldn’t have anywhere near the same tolerance pulling 9G as a pilot that trains to 9G.

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Pilot tolerance notwithstanding, I don’t see how an F-15 could sustain 10+ g’s unless the FM is very wrong. Instantaneous, sure, but even the F-15 doesn’t have the thrust to sustain that kind of turn.

Yeah, the -15 can do it, but afterwards needs an airframe inspection. Same with the Tomcat.

EDIT: they could pull that in instantaneous Gs, but the airframes can’t support 10+ sustained Gs.

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