Need Help with F-4 AIM-7 with Jester Boresight

Need help. I have been getting my *** handed to me on Foothold with the F-4. I know, I know–choose a better CAP mount! But I am a glutton for abuse. My problem is this (and please read carefully because my terminology will likely be wrong): When I use Boresight ← The JESTER one, not CAA → the MiG will get locked but the missile will never track. CAA Boresight = The missile tracks fine. Letting JESTER find and lock the target in normal scan = The missile tracks fine. The problem with this method is that JESTER finds and locks and MiG-21 head-on from slightly low at 5 miles. By that point I am dead. Using Boresight at 10-15 miles when I easily can see the target would be best. That way I can launch at 8 miles and either kill or survive the merge. But, again, it NEVER works. I’ve tried at least 50 times using every JESTER aspect, interlock, no interlock, every AIM-7 variant, etc. Thanks!

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Do you command the lock after you went to boresight (Jester Interaction long press)?

If you don’t, you’re in a flood mode and need to keep the pipper on the target. This can be useful, when Jester won’t get a lock on the target like in a look down situation. When you tell jester to use nose aspect (cycle with short press on the interaction button) this is a good party trick in head on situations.

In general the A2A-Radar of the F-4E is not very good. Over land it is hard to use when there is terrain in the scan cone…

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Yep, long press and a “good” lock. Not great though. Closure speeds bounce a bit.

In my experience, Jester is sometimes lying when claiming he has a good lock :wink:

You need to confirm by watching the closure and see how the contact moves down the scope.

It’s finicky. Try to get below the enemy to get into a look up situation and stay there by diving when the target dives as well. Afaik that’s how real Phantom crews worked around this.

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Righto. Thanks! I may need to ditch the Phantom for something that works.

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Or… you might have a human RIO. :wink:

I kinda started reading the Chuck’s guide to the Phantom RIO.

I can focus on Air to Air Ops and we can give it a chance. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses::+1:

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That might help.

I guess you also have to kind of manage your expectations in a 60s jet. The Phantom was great against MiG-17s and early MiG-21s.

I would say the MiG-21bis is in the same level (and slightly newer) than our F-4E.

Everything later (MiG-23, MiG-25, MiG-29, Su-27) is getting more and more challenging.

This does not mean, that you have to ditch the Phantom. Just adapt your tactics…

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Or maybe just APPLY tactics! No. I think I need either @komemiute or the MiG-29. My hill to die on was not to buy it because I didn’t want to support Russia. But now that my own authoritarian empire is just as evil, I am freed of all moral imperatives. (Yes, a fallacy, but I sleep better at night.)

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I think I just peed myself because you are so funny.

On with the Phantom. I thought that Boresight mode was for only <5 kn? Am I wrong?
Here is a “Gotcha” When using Boresight for Aim 7(Radar), you must have the pinkie switch in Aim 9(Heat). The pinkie sw sweeps the radar when in Boresight. If you are in Aim 7(Radar) Mode the radar is pointed right. In Gun mode(and Boresight) radar is pointed left. Aim9(Heat) points the radar ahead. Soon as you get the lock, move pinkie to Radar and Fox1!
The 3 way Display That says Radar, Heat, Gun is called the Heads-up display. Can it be more counterintuitive? I believe not.
You may have trouble recognizing the symbology. There is a definite look to the radar when the target is locked. Then, its just a matter of keep painting the baddy all the way to impact. Remember, no free lunches with the Aim-7. You have to paint the guy all the way. What I like to do is to try to get in close and then use Boresight and employ the Fox1 from the front seat.
This is the definitive guide on Phantom air to air. Gotta Love this guy.

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I don’t know about the Phantom, but on Foothold and the Über-Hornet radar with 7F missiles it sometimes feels easier just to pop the canopy, grab the sparrow from the rail and hit the red air over the head with it as it passes - the effective range is about the same. The 9L’s, the Phoenix’s are all great, but my 7F kills seem like 25% at best, even with reduced ranges on the Su-27’s and MiG-29’s. So I guess on Foothold the missile isn’t helping either.

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That’s why I asked to read carefully. When one says “Boresight” the listener hears “CAA Boresight” which is a pilot initiated ACM mode. A Jester Boresight is one where you command him to enter Boresight at 25 miles and your piper is the radar’s beam. CAA Boresight works as advertised. But if you have to wait that long to launch h2h, you’re likely dead.

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I feel ashamed that I haven’t been honoring my father’s memory and flying the great HB Phantom this year, mostly due to focusing on rotorcraft and getting bitten pretty badly by the Little Bird bug. But about this time last year, I was having great success with the Phantom using cage/long rage boresight mode (not CAA). So much so, that it began to feel like a cheat. I thought it best to show my notes here that I gathered mostly from Heat Blur devs on the DCS forum. They should help.

TLDR: bandit = 1-10 nm, use cage/boresight mode, after the merge, use CAA mode. Worked pretty well for me. This is given that you know the basics, like when being vectored, remain below the bandit’s angels so that the radar is looking level or slightly up.

BEGIN NOTES

FROM THE DEVELOPER

Edit: Use the Jester wheel to put the radar in boresight mode (not CAA borsight). RADAR > BORESIGHT > ENTER BST

For context, CAGE mode can be entered with a button on the right throttle.
CAGE mode is divided into two submodes:
Boresight and CAA.

The two submodes can be toggled by using the NGS/NWS/CAA button on the flight stick.

If the target is already within visual range, prefer CAGE/BORESIGHT. Lock quality is usually really good in that mode, unless the target is kissing the ground.

In simple words, CAGE/BORESIGHT is for locking guys ahead with your pipper, range 5nm.
CAGE/CAA is for locking guys above/below you in a turnfight, when you cant put the pipper on it anymore.

/////////////MORE//////////////////

Bad locks are a common sight especially with CAA, tap the NGS/NWS/CAA button to reattempt quickly.

This is often down to players not detecting bad locks. The missile will guide well if you actually locked the target and not a sidelobe.

In the future Jester will ofc be able to detect this on his own. But until then, players have to interpret the radar screen symbology and repeat a lock if it is bad. To improve lock quality, make sure to not maneuver much when the lock is executed (so that cursor leading can be done proper) and the target is not next to clutter on the screen.

If the target is already within visual range, prefer CAGE/BORESIGHT. Lock quality is usually really good in that mode, unless the target is kissing the ground.

Flood shots are really low probability usually, since all it needs is the target changing aspect as it sees the missile and then its trashed. For targets flying very low, flood is often the only option though.

Enter CAGE mode (not CAA), press the context action and then put the target on pipper. Jester will lock him up as soon as the return is within 5° of the reticle.

At close ranges (1-10nm) this method of locking is usually fairly reliable and rarely gets sidelobes or clutter.

BAD LOCKS

INDICATIONS:

  • Is the steering dot stable and doesnt jump randomly
  • Is the ASE circle not constantly growing and shrinking rapidly
  • Is the Vc meaningful and not jumping, especially compared to how the target return moves on the screen
  • Check that Vc isnt equal to your own speed
  • Check that the antenna elevation moves with the target and doesnt for example stay while the target climbs/dives
  • Check that the target return remains visible and centered
  • does the screen line up with what you see visually (for example if the target moves left, but your steering dot doesnt change; or you follow the target but the steering dot and antenna suggest the target didnt move)

Bad locks can happen all the time, especially if not taking extra care to avoid them. Identifying a bad lock and reattempting quickly is a crucial step. Normally the WSO would take care of it and Jester will in the future do so as well. Currently, Jester checks the SKIN TRACK mode lamp only, so he can identify completely bad locks, but not more.


AIM-9

VERSIONS

BRAVO (easily spoofed)

JULLIET (better seeker head, can be uncaged, no sound when LOCKED)

LIMA/MIKE (all aspect)

BIND PINKY SWITCH, A2A REFUEL RELEASE (uncage seaker head), TRIGGER

USE
MASTER ARM
GUNSITE A2A MODE
PINKY SW HEAT

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That’s helpful. Thanks! ALL of my long-range Jester-initiated boresight locks were clearly trash. But I need that 10+ mile range! CAA is at 5 and that is too close. The MiG-21’s R-3 is already in your canopy at 5 miles. Maybe I should attempt a 2nd NWS lock after Jester claims “Lock!”? I never thought to try that but testing will need to wait until I get back home.

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@chipwich WHAT A POST!!! YOU D’ MAN. I learn so much from you.

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