I took the Harrier out for a spin on the Hoggit server the other night.
Not many people on, figured I’d go take out some ground targets and refresh my memory on the systems. Loaded a pair of bags, the TGP and half a dozen GBU-12’s.
I found an SA-6 site (or it found me, rather) and spent the next few minutes doing circles around it between mountain peaks to get them to empty their launchers.
Once done, I climbed up to 20k and started fiddling with the TGP. The first couple of bombs didn’t hit, as I forgot to turn on the laser…but then I finally got it and the first launcher took a direct hit. I turned around, put the TGP thingy on the SAM thingy and sent another egg off. Switched to the external view of the bomb to see the fins in action.
I just had time to think ”huh, tracers? Is someone strafing down there?” before the bomb went off…and the flaming wreckage of the friendly F-16 flashes across my screen, right over the explosion cloud.
“Blue player Bearhedge in AV8B has killed blue player xxx in F-16 with GBU-12”
It was one of those things…I could not have made it happen on purpose had I wanted to…but Murphy’s law did what Murphy’s law does! Strafing at 400kts, the F-16 would probably have spent less than a couple of seconds within the lethal blast radius of the GBU…but he occupied that space at exactly the wrong time.
The Viper jockey found it funny and all was well…I still felt a bit bad. I doubt I’ll score another GBU-12 kill of an airborne F-16 in a hurry!
I know I’ve sang praises for the Harrier a lot in the past few years. And I absolutely still love this module, but unfortunately Razbam pushed it out of Early Access into a “released” state… It’s currently bug riddled once you get into the systems and it makes flying the Harrier a frustrating experience for a lot of people. I am thoroughly disappointed by this as are many other AV-8B fans… Not sure what to do about this but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
I have been keeping up on the now 45 page thread, as I am like @Cib and not “current” on the aircraft. I can agree it does not leave a feeling of confidence in the matter, module or future development(s).
I can say that while the response from ED has been less than ideal in a few ways (such as 3rd parties dictating their own EA definition without substantial QA oversight) - there does seem to be a notable improvement from them in regards to community relations.
While I don’t think it’s extremely likely, I am hoping there is some kind of official bulletin via this week’s newsletter. It may still be too soon practically speaking for that.
Yes, that’s the thing, generally it is a fine aircraft and works. Once you dive into the systems you run into so many little bugs that are not apparent at first sight, once you can’t get a system to work as described(if described at all, the manual is terrible) and you read that it’s a bug that has been closed for months you start to loose faith.
I’ve always figured that “they’ll get around to it, I am sure!” and advocated a lot for the Harrier, recommending it as a tremendously fun aircraft(which it still is). But, right now? To me it feels like Razbam is saying “We are done with it, have fun!”…
It is really really hard to remain positive that they will fix it after such a long time. Razbam used to be quick in bug fixes and communications a few years ago but that has disappeared completely.
Weapons/Features like the GBU-54 were covered by Nineline, Raz is waiting on ED to implement that. Which I think to be transparent, should have been noted as a casual customer may not be aware that they would be reliant on ED for that.
Sure, but they shouldn’t have released it as a final product and put it into stagnation if those things aren’t done. There’s a bunch of things they depend on ED for yes, but they have dropped the ball on a ton of features themselves too.
Wasnt it ED who flipped the bit on early access? What’s in a name. Did anyone involved state they are no longer supporting or improving the harrier? Why all the angst. People should chill.
They have stated that it is feature complete and they will only work on “product sustainment” and given Razbams trackrecord with the harrier that is not a good sign. That is why so many harrier fliers are right out pissed. They’ve stood behind razbams 3 year development program only to be left with a product that is semi-finished.
No, according to Nineline ED’s involvement in a 3rd party having a module leave early access essentially only includes removing the EA label from the DCS website etc. They do so at the request of the 3rd party dev.
Indeed, there are various things that could be classed as a “go” or “no go” in regards to leaving EA, such as: “should core weapons like GBU-54 hold them back?” (rhetorical) - I wasn’t going to dive into that, I figure the ED forum thread has ample information and opinions from which to generate one’s own thoughts as is.
I would imagine that the definition should be set by the dev themselves and then adhered to.
If they say “TPOD will be added in EA, but it will leave EA before TPOD is fully operational and it will be finished in sustainment” for example, then I would say as long as they stay true to their word everyone is clear.
If they do NOT clearly lay out what their milestones are, and you have a list of incomplete additions or bugged existing features, and then they suddenly say “ok, done! we will fix bugs but not add anything new” that leaves a LOT of confusion. Maybe they can’t give an ETA, that’s fine, but at least they should say what they will or will not do.
Right, any form of communication would be better then Nothing Jedi. Right now it looks like it will be heading into a Hawk 2: Bugaboogaloo territory.
The community has resorted to a public bug tracker since the official one does not match the product at all, nor do any of the ‘resolved’ bugs in the forums.
It’s a shame, because Zeus and Smiley used to be very active on the forums and quickly identify bugs and fix them…
Do I feel like i got my moneys worth from the harrier
Yes.
Have i moved on to other modules and lessened with time the amount i fly it.
Yes.
Do I worry anymore about the £30 i spent nearly 2 years ago to buy it?
No.
Do I expect Razbam to keep updating that module forever?
No
Do i think i was lied to when I bought the module in early access as regards to features planned for the future but not implemented?
Probably not. Time moves on.
Do I think early access is bad.
Yes, with a caveat. The problem is that early access allows a massive influx of cash for the development team to in theory pay for the completion of the module. However after that influx of cash the sales will naturally drop off. Limiting future earning potential. Limiting growth as all profits from the sales are put back into the product as opposed to investment in the next one. Its a self defeating business model. Especially for a niche product like a dcs module.
But we keep buying them. They keep taking the wages and the companies involved are on borrowed time in my view. There is no potential for growth.
I like the Harrier module. The plane is so unique and also the cockpit graphics in high res VR must be one of the best in DCS (Hornet cockpit looks dull after it). I bought it late in development thinking I would get quite finished product, just to find out it is riddled with small bugs. The most frustrating thing about many of the bugs is that they seem to be easy to fix, but they just don’t get any attention. For example the ground track marker is off when using magnetic bearing. I figured out it would need changing a ‘+’ to ‘-’ in one of the calculations. Still it just doesn’t get fixed. Talk about low hanging fruits.
I often find myself thinking this should be a subscription thing. NOT because I like that model, not at all. It’s a ‘leak’ in my wallet. However I see little difference in that and paying the Sat/Cable company for a lot of stuff I never use (watch).
They are both for my entertainment, though in some ways I sense a monthly cash deposit to ED might actually make me feel better - like they are catering to me, personally. Dang sure more than the cable/Sat companies do.
This is all due to the highly unique sub-sub-sub-genre of a sandbox we are playing in.
It always boils down to competition: there is none, really.
Still why I stick to my other wild idea that, one day, FS2020 will be weaponized providing a [more] stable target - and even ED could just concentrate on aircraft only. No 3D/Sound engine(s)/etc to worry about.
Now, would this make the products any better, or be produced faster? Have no idea but I’d like to think so. This is about the only thing, outside of what I already have to pay (again, Cable/Sat bill), that I would even consider ‘renting’. Horrible idea? Maybe.
one in a milion…