Previously on Hold, but now back in Development.
@klarsnow you’re up. I’m going to go into the corner and try not to make snippy comments about Harrier INS’s…
Now I’m gonna have to REALLY teach all you fewls how to WSO
MUDHEN!.. MUDHEN!.. MUDHEN!
I’m excited for all these modules they’re doing, but I wonder if they really have the manpower to build all these and finish them.
We’re up to the Flogger, Farmer, Strike Eagle, plus the still in-progress Harrier. How’s the Mirage doing, is it mostly done by this point? (Oh, and whatever other Mirage versions they’re doing.)
@klarsnow I kid, I kid
Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for them and 100% team Mudhen, but this is my major concern. We’re about eight months into the Harrier, and I won’t lie, I’m rather surprised out how… leisurely their update tempo has been. The F-15E is as complex as, if not (and I would argue it is) more than, the F/A-18, and they’re also supporting the Mirage and apparently developing three other aircraft as well as half the Royal Navy with two coders?
I’m afraid they’re playing with fire here. I hope they pull it off.
Perhaps they are encouraged by how well the Hornet (and perhaps Harrier) has been received and want a peice of that action.
In the same way that we are accepting of the Hornet in its current state of readiness, I’d feel the same about a Strike Eagle.
In other words, “I’ll be in my bunk.”
I’m going on a tear, I’ll back off after this, I swear
I guess my concern here is two fold:
by that logic the F/A-18 at release is a more mature module than the Harrier is at nearly eight months post release. If we accept that the aircraft are of similar complexity (and I don’t), look at the staff Razbam have to throw at a new aircraft while supporting their existing stable, and look at the resources EDSIMTEK threw at the F/A-18 to get it to it’s current state. I think F/A-18 level at release might be a bit optimistic. (I’m curious about this rumor ED’s partnering with them to assist, that would certainly change the arithmetic.)
I’m repeating myself between threads, but I don’t think Razbam is necessarily wrong to do this. I think this is a healthy, diversified pipeline to keep them healthy for years. I’m concerned that if they continue to release/support aircraft at the rate they have, compared to the rate they’re announcing things, the community will eventually turn and things will get very ugly.
While harrier isn’t perfect, its a very fun module and I am in love with their mirage. If anyone can do it (beside EDSIMTEK) it’s RAZBAM. I have full confidence their mudhen is gonna rule. Will take some time tho.
I wonder which radar we are going to get. A modern AESA equiped mudhen with the sniper pod and all that? or a ‘90s early edition with the SAR dish and the LANTIRN set? I actually think todays’ version might be easier to simulate… what do you think @klarsnow?
This is my problem with the whole thing. I fear that WE are the problem (if there is one, and there might not be) but basically if a module is a popular one it gets bought by the entire community up front, pretty much on good faith that it will be finished. Pretty much no one is holding their cash waiting for it to be done first. The DCS community is such that the user base is either buying it immediately in pre-order or never buying it.
I am aware that I am speaking in massive generalities here. But my fear is that the incentive is to create modules and get the sales bump and then the rest of it will be finished whenever. The optics of 8 artists and 2 coders doesn’t help that view and neither does the current update pace. By no means do I want come across as the “sky is falling” guy and I deeply respect Razbam as a dev to make huge strides in what has been a challenging business environment for others. But I think this trend is something to watch.
Speak for yourself. I don’t think this is at all the case. If the Hornet was being developed by any other than ED, i’d have not bought it in unfinished state.
Well the thing is todays version is by no means a single version
Most of the jets are still running the APG-70 mech scan radar
A few (more every year) are running the fancy APG-82 AESA
Some jets have -220 engines (less Power)
Some jets have -229 engines (more power)
And there are various combinations of such, some squadrons have no -229’s, but have AESA radars sprinkled throughout, some squadrons have a mix of -229’s and -220’s with no AESA’s, some have just -229’s with no AESA’s.
The only thing I can say with any certainty is that as of about 3 years ago the Lantirn TGP went the way of the dodo and it is 100% Sniper now. We still carry the other half of the lantirn btw the NAVFLIR/TF pod on the right side.
So yeah, take your pick
The AESA would be fun, but to do it right would be tough as balls cause that data is gonna be hard to come by (agreements with boeing notwithstanding)
(This is of course only talking USAF, if you want to get into Korean Slam Eagles, Saudi F-15E’s and Singaporean F-15E’s thats a whole nother ballgame)
At the end of the day, that’s really all I’m trying to say. I’ve noticed a trend, I’m concerned by it, but it’s not going to be the end of the world. I want the best for the Mudhen because it holds a pretty special place in my heart, and I’m hopeful that Razbam will pull it off.
I just don’t want my moving map on film , Desert Storm scenarios not withstanding.
I think this is an issue that has plagued gaming as a whole in the past few years. So many games now “release” as early access and for many it seems unclear when, if ever, they’ll be truly finished products with regard to their features.
I can definitely see it being an issue that arises. When you make a majority of your sales up front, what’s the motivation to continue putting the same resources into that product as opposed to allocating it to a new, revenue generating product?
To be clear, I’m not implying that ED is doing this, rather I’m saying it’s a dangerous implication and trend for gaming as a whole.
Fair enough @sobek - I did mention that I was speaking in generalities, but if I have to say it out loud then I probably shouldn’t go that far.
Kudos to you for being discerning in your purchases. It is the core issue that I was trying to get at.
I have a feeling that behind the scenes ED is streamlining their own code and feature sets so that they can be easier transported between aircraft, and the F-18 gives them a healthy dose of western stuff, and is encouraging the other developers to share. Throw in some F-14 code and you’ve got half a F-15E done(yes yes, I oversimplify extremely).
I could be 100% wrong though. Mostly likely I am.