Some actual Flaming Cliffs 4 Confirmation

The FC3 aircraft are no doubt fun, and easy to get going in. The Eagle and 27/33/J11 are all great. I can understand why they would expand the FC3 style aircraft, I just thought they would use this opportunity to add to the collection of aircraft.

If you want my solution, just add the FC3 version of the “remakes” to the full module. So you can choose between them like the L39C and L39Z. Advertise the “new updated” full module as including the “easy” mode for beginners. Kick the FC4 can down the road until you can model new airframes for it, like the F-111, AH-64, and A6.


Yeah…I think “we” (meaning us people that live and breathe flight and combat sims) sometimes make the mistake of forgetting that there is a silent (or in this case…just hanging out elsewhere) group that this type of content appeals to. And even some of us in the “we” group like that kind of stuff here and there.

I’m not good enough at air-to-air to have much of an opinion on how people (“we” people that is) feel FC3 aircraft affect online play. Does it imbalance play toward the simpler airplanes? Or do the more complex planes also have additional capability? Or is it completely a matter of pilot skill? Probably a mix of them I would guess…

My thought…hey, hook em’…let them see some of the complex stuff flying around them, and maybe they will make the leap to “the dark side” too…

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I think this is a good idea. You have the professional-grade versions for the hardcore switch flippers and the novice-grade versions for the neophyte. No money is lost because the models have already been made and all you’re doing is changing the avionics suite, to be honest.

I think it’ll work out well. Consider the potential reaction of the hardcore crowd if they found out one of the FC4 aircraft was a module they really wanted and it wasn’t going to get the A-10C-level of fidelity. The crap storm would have been visible from orbit. This way, nobody loses and ED brings in new customers.

They might want to fix their “easy avioics” mode in Flaming Cliffs if they want their advertisements to be factually correct, though. I’m not saying, I’m just saying…


A good idea? Yeah maybe.
Not for me though, so I won’t buy it.

This is great news to me because it means I won’t have to buy it. Had they added even one aircraft type that wasn’t available in DCS, knowing me, I would feel forced to bite. In that regard I am not disappointed at all. If this means that all future modules will be offered at both a DCS level and, eventually, a FC level then ED seem to have decided not to milk DCS customers to buy both. Having been seriously milked during the BS1/FC2/BS2 phases, I for one would happily put Flaming Cliffs in my rearview mirror (press “M”).


A post from ED this year on their Forums spelt it out quite clearly that people on the forums and those that did multiplayer were a small minority of the customer base. (SF was the same) - so there is a good chance that the less visible majority is what this is aimed at.

Not really my cup of tea, but if it helps keep the lights on, why not.

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I do believe many flightsimmers are intimidated by a full fidelity DCS module.
And if this brings more people to split the bill with us, I’m all for it.

The worst thing that could happen is that the money well dries out, and ED decides to call it quits.
ED is a business, and if there’s no income, there will be no business. That would be a catastrophy for every serious flightsimmer.


The only thing i do hope will come from this is spare resources to drive the development of core features. With the WWII thing, the Hornet, the whole 2.0 & 2.5 updates, i don’t have a hard time believing that ED was spread thin financially, but the sim is in dire need of development of some gameplay relevant things (AI of air AND ground units, damage modeling, ATC, IR sensors, fragmentation damage, AA missile flight models and seeker logic design, etc.). The list is long and there has been very little progress over the last few years.

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Absolutely! I hope so too.
And reading a bit between the lines from what Wags said in some interviews and Q&A, it seems like ED are aware of many of the core problems, and have them on their to do list.

But they need to keep a great deal of focus on the stuff that brings new money, to be able to fix core stuff.

But I think I already see an increase in productivity since the great unification to 2.5x.


From a guy who’s just beggining to get a taste of DCS (and that is still only flying the F15 FC3) I can see what they are doing. Probably they are aiming for continuing the unification that 2.5 brought, and for content. So same aircraft means same content can be ported easily, same AI, same mission types, same weapons systems, etc. It’s smart of them because it frees them up to pour content into it. Flaming Cliffs training missions for all planes, for instance.

I think the complexity of FC is almost already too high for the Multiplayer to get war thunder popularity, and they would be wise to invest in single player content. For this mid-level simulation type content is very important, since the less realistic planes are easier to fly, people need missions to fly them in, otherwise just dealing with systems can get old faster (I feel that with the F15, even though I still have a lot to learn).

And my guess is that to get new players, all they need is the F/A 18 to make a great game. It’s an aircraft that can give very dynamic and varied gameplay, because of it’s multirole capability. For a game perspective it’s the perfect one to do it. Bombing, Air to air, carrier ops, etc. Besides, it’s more advanced 4th gen systems make it easier for younger people to get into, or at least people without aviation background like me. I love the digital helpers on the MFDs and HUD, since I’m not used to flying Cesnas and looking at needles on my free time (don’t judge me). In fact I feel a bit lost when I see an L39 cockpit, compared with a hornet/harrier, even though the L39 should be the simpler plane to learn.

In the end, for new players, investing in content is the right move. And focusing on only bringing in new aircraft after their high fidelity models are ready will lead to a better standard maintaining quality throughout the different planes. It was hard for me to understand all the differences between all the FC3 planes, like some have good FCS, some have simplified ones, some have better cockpits than others etc. I think new players want to hop in as they do with any other game and don’t think this is made by different people so the planes are different. I guess they are trying to make FC4 a PC game.


While it isn’t the worst idea in the world and there is most definitely some opportunity missed here by taking the easy route.

By making FC level entries of stuff like the F-15E or Su-24 (Which would be a decent stop-gap until F-111, of course) you could have appealed to neophytes and us nerds alike. Sure we’d all prefer full fidelity, but we’re not going to turn down a new flyable, period.

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This was one hell of a great post. Kudos, buddy. Nicely written! :smile:

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Aussie vader says yes !!!


Looking forward to this. I dont own M2k, AV8, F18 and I will not own F14 and F4… I just cant put aside enough free time to fuly njoy these planes.
But… FC level of those!? Yes, I am interested.

Holy hell, I want this to be canon.

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Don’t think 3rd party modules getting the FC4 hookup. Could be wrong though.

I think the business argument is the key.
IIRC someone from ED once said that FC3 by far made them most money, so I don’t blame them if they go that route.

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Although the decision to FC-ify existing DCS aircraft is one i do find strange (i just realized this is the case, up until now i thought they were going to do new planes). I hope they did their market research homework on this and there are enough takers. PR-wise people are (understandably) disappointed after the initial announcement.