Stop Killing Games, or not?

Hi,

stumbled over this video via Discord:

and was also pointed to a negative reply on the initiative here:

While I agree with the author of the initiative that we should not be tricked in buying (single-player) games that then suddenly stop to work for no good reason, there are also a bunch of games which are clearly labeled as multi-player only and where the business model is clearly based on subscriptions to a service, rather than owning the software per se.

An example of the past for a multiplayer flying game that comes to mind was the original Warbirds. There was for some time a European Warbirds server, but it probably didn’t make economically any sense, so it was shutdown. I don’t remember the details, but soonish thereafter a European server free of cost for the virtual pilots was established, probably more like a recruiting tool for the American server? Probably it was merely tolerated, rather than supported. Anyway, the free-to-play Warbirds software was usable w/o AI but with local LAN option (back in those days) without ever going for paid service subscription.

I guess my take on the situation is that we as customers should be clearly informed upon the conditions of the game once the servers for it go offline, upon the point of purchase. In this sense the petition seems to go too far. Games like Warthunder would probably be dead in the water if the owners would need to support online servers forever…

Cheers,
TeTeT

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I am a staunch capitalist, but even I’m convinced that satan himself convinced game developers to take up a micro-transaction based business model. I hate them. Video games where you can play offline and alone, and or had a choice to be online and live, were the best. I fear those days are gone.

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We could probably agree to a carveout for explicitly online-only games like WarChunder, but for games with any singleplayer component, either don’t make them login to an online server before I can play offline or push a patch to remove that check before you discontinue support for the game (honestly, do it after the first few months if the online check is because you’re worried about piracy).

And stop requiring your launcher to have admin permissions… looking at you Rockstar :rage:

Edit: the old Novalogic games are an example of what I’d like to see. Take Joint Ops: The Nova servers fell over a couple of years ago, so online and online co-op are gone. But singleplayer and LAN co-op (which we can use tools like Hamachi to extend a virtual LAN across the web) still work, because Novalogic put the check for the servers when you click on the ā€œONLINEā€ menu, not when you open the game!

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It’s important to remember that asking for a company to maintain a game forever is a ridiculous ask and few want that. I honestly feel that it’s a strawman propagated by industry talking heads in support of their corporate headpatters.

What we really want, is exactly what Torc here has laid out. Ability to continue to play, even after the main company has decided to move on. There exists many possibilities to do this and the two I can think of will please both the capitalist leaning individuals AND those who lean more socialist and care more about the art being preserved.

The first option is to maintain rights to the property, but sell the rights to custodianship of the game to a third party. Give that third party a cut of further sales, so we could expect purchase prices to stay up a little but, but certain services stay available.

The second option is to just open up the game and allow for third party programs like Hamachi and Tunngle to pull the weight.

Both of these are ideal options, from my perspective. One creates a new market, new jobs, and new opportunities for growth and a new sector of the industry that need be filled. The other is tried and true.

However, no one in publishing wants to see this. They want their customers absolutely dependent on their matchmaking, their own servers, their own map pack updates, and their infrastructure simply because it keeps the audience captive.

You’ve all here seen their absolute worst nightmare and that’s Falcon 4. I’m honestly not the biggest fan of it. I’m firmly in the DCS camp. But, credit where it is due, Falcon 4 dropped in December of 1998. The people who played Falcon have kept it with them through marriages, divorces, promotions, graduations, even retirements. These people haven’t so much found their favorite game as they’ve found a game they’ve nested it in.

That’s the challenge Microprose faces with Falcon 5, they need to try and convince Falcon 4 players to get out of that nest that they have had and maintained for, what will be, 30 years at that point.

This is why publishers HATE the idea of losing the ability to deepsix games after a few years, because they can essentially force their audience to move onto their next game and buy whatever pig-slop they offer up.

Publishers will look at Falcon 4 and feel disgust. They don’t want gamers to find something they are content with. Not just like, but content. They don’t want you to put down stakes. I hear it said often by a number of would-be gaming news talking heads that ā€œSo and So publisher wants this series to become a Call of Duty.ā€

Hardly, they want things to become more like a Madden or a FIFA. They want you constantly feeling the need to buy the next game, the next year, without question and for the development going into that game to be much more streamlined.

That is what they want to maintain, they want to be able to yoink away your ability to play when it comes time to try and put out the new iteration, regardless of its quality.

Sure, there’s concerns for games like War Thunder in this regard, as well, but here’s my question to that:

Why should I care? Why should I, a customer, care? That is not my wheelhouse. I already feel that games like War Thunder are exploitative as hell, so I’m going to be more cavalier about it, but frankly? If you can’t run a business in a manner that meets the absolute MINIMUM expectations of ethical behavior we have as customers? That business has no right to exist. And, given that Gaijin has made their game engine open source, I get the feeling they actually wouldn’t have any issues with adapting.

After all, if Jagex can keep Runescape running as a free to play game since 2001 and Everquest is still around since 1999? I think F2P developers like Gaijin are not only capable, but very able to adapt.

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Caveat Emptor

Along with the fact that we buy a licence to use the software, we don’t actually own it - most EULA’s pretty much state that continued maintenance of servers and sofware support can be ceased ā€˜at any time. for any reason’.

If those terms didn’t exist in an EULA, depending on your jurisdiction, you may be entitled to a refund or partial refund? There is very little Australian case law around this issue, so if I wanted to force the issue I would probably have to take the relevant Company to court… Which I would probably lose (licence not ownership issue) & even if I did win there is no way I could afford the lengthy and expensive appeals process.

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Ive been following Ross’ adventures for a long time.

This is more about single player games or mainly single player games that require online access to play. So when the server gets shut down, you lose total access to your game, not just the online access for multi player.

Its games like the Crew, with significant damage being done to consumers

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Yeah, that bugs the hell out of me… Always has.

Ever since HL2. You should have heard (read) the rant I had on IRC when it required an internet connection and Steam Account just to register the game.

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So, how should Microsoft adapt to such a law for MSFS…?

That was me, but with Portal. I was anti Steam but REALLY wanted to play Portal.

I am mostly fine with Steam now, it is damn convenient. But it isn’t like being able to put that 20 year old DVD or 30 year old 3.5" discette into a PC and run an old game.

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I can warm up to most DRM pieces like Steam. GoG is my favorite, no silly faux social media and lightweight.

My issue comes with having so many. So, games exclusive to Epic, I skip. But, what REALLY chaps my ass? When Ubisoft requires you use THEIR service despite owning the game on Steam.

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It’s probably a forgotten promise by now, but when I started using Steam they promised that if they ever shut down the service they’d remove the copy protection prior to that.

Of course, I now don’t have enough storage to download all my games, but me having a drive failure seems more likely than Steam closing down…

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Same here. But they are a bit of an exception to the rule these days when it comes to big tech treating us like more like commodities or a cash cow to be milked rather than customers.

Anyone else remember when Google’s motto was ā€œDon’t be evilā€?

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I attribute this to Gabe Newell ethics.

I am honestly scared of his retirement.

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My attention span is too short for me to care very much. I like experiencing the general look, feel and strategy of a game and then I move on well before mastery or completion. I also pay heavily into a glider club where I haven’t flown since 2021. The world is filled with givers, takers and suckers. I can only claim with certainty that I am not in the second category.

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And you believed them? The moment they started being an ad company, that was lip service at most. That was >20 years ago.

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They did have a few positives in my book. Like when the Snowden documents revealed that the NSA had a workgroup to hack Android and Symbian, but suspiciously didn’t have one for either iOS nor for Windows phone. You just knew who cooperated and who didn’t.
I also vaguely remember how many people who worked there praised their work environment. (Even after quitting)

…but yeah, now that you mention it: That was long ago. Talking early 2000s.

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Yes, they do contribute to a lot of important open source stuff, but their business model is so f***** up, I don’t know where to begin. Like with everything, where there’s shadow, there’s always at least a bit of light too.

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Honestly? I wouldn’t be. Since Valve is still privately held, Gabe can stay at the helm for as long as he wants. He doesn’t do much these days, just lets Valve be Valve while he has fun with his toy, the DSV Bakunawa. But, of course, that time will come when someone replaces him.

I expect he’ll hand pick whoever it is.

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I will try to be hopeful.

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The heart of the matter, IMO.

If the server check blocks otherwise functional offline content from loading… Why?

But then the question comes to why should developers allow offline content to be functional offline? What is their incentive? The server check is essentially DRM. Same as how perfectly playable older games are taken down off digital game platforms. Oh sure, game removed due to expiring license issues. But what incentive does the game dev have to fight for a more flexible license? More likely, the opposite is true!

Most of my new games have the single player, offline gameplay elements inaccessible without server checks. Even games that claim to have an ā€œofflineā€ mode. Forza Motorsport, Gran Turismo 7, EA PGA Tour, Madden 24… Go test and see what they actually let function.

The best example I’ve seen is the Nintendo Switch. They can’t really demand always-on connection checks on a system that might be in the hands of someone sitting on a park bench. (Maybe there are some Switch games that do require online, but I’ve not got one yet.)

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