Super Hornet About to Get a Big Upgrade...

Pretty sure you’re misunderstanding me by a large margin here. I’m not going to purport to be some expert in fixed wing aircraft when most everything I’ve done research on relates to rotary wing applications, but I have come across a lot of ancillary information on a lot of aircraft to which I’ve considered doing projects on. So, with that out of the way:

The F-15E is not just a F-15B/D with bomb racks thrown onto it. It’s got a heavier structure to support that, plus all kinds of equipment related to the strike mission that don’t just come off when you ditch the bombs. In pure absolute terms, that means it’s got a lot of dead weight that doesn’t go away. Is that a huge problem? I dunno; but in terms of performance, it is going to have an impact on how it can fly and fight in the air. A good crew can make all the difference there (and I’m pretty sure the F-15E crews are some of the best in the business) but we’re assuming equal skill levels here. In that instance, an F-15A/C isn’t having to tote around a bunch of extra stuff unnecessary to the mission of air combat. Strictly speaking, the 15A/C has a lot more options than a 15E does; the same is true of a lot of other fighter aircraft of similar generation.

This goes back to my original point which is no matter how badly we may want it to be, you cannot have a warplane that’s exceptional at every single task from strike to interception; there’s just too many special considerations for each mission that would end up in the aircraft being a dog in one mission or another. See the F-111 for that example. This results in compromises, of which the F-15E is one… In that it trades some A2A capability for a very strong A2G capability. The Super Bug is the same way, though it trades far more capability to be able to have a much more varied mission set.

TL;DR A type like the A-6 is always going to have a stronger long-range attack capability than another aircraft not purpose-designed for the mission. You always have to compromise somewhere on something to get the capability you want.

2 Likes

I love this discussion for a lot of reasons!

1- there’s Intruders all over the place!
2- Intruders are not being bad mouthed.
3- Intruders.
4- There’s knowledge and jokes together and people are discussing without insulting.
5- :a6:
6- :smiley:

3 Likes

That is so sexy. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m well aware there are structural differences. Even if my good friend didn’t fly them, the mudhen has always been a favorite. You’re not wrong, these differences negatively effect certain aspects of the aircraft’s maneuverability. However there are miles of difference between “Relatively less capable than the original model in its given role” and “isn’t a fighter”.

By that logic the F/A-18E isn’t a fighter either.

@near_blind mentioned f-111 …

Have a cookie
:cookie:

2 Likes

RABBLE RABBLE

Purely kinematically speaking, yes the F-15C has more A/A capability than a Strike Eagle with its CFT’s equipped. It will get more range out of its missiles and it will be better in a BFM engagement.

However the difference is not as great as you might think, and I would argue that a lesser skilled strike eagle crew will be more effective in a BVR engagement than a more experienced single seat aircrew. I’ve seen this over and over again where the addition of a second crewmember to the cockpit exponentially builds SA. Your options are primarily limited by what you know, and in that the Strike eagle is king of the US fourth gen fighters.

There are also capabilities that the strike eagle has that single seat fighters can only dream of having, again due to the two seat aircraft and crew.

As for the airframe itself. It is far stronger than the C model airframe yes, not a whole lot heavier, and with -229 motors (half the strike eagle fleet right now) more powerful. If you take the CFT’s off a -229 powered strike eagle it will out BFM just about anything in the inventory right now (we dont train to that because CFT’s and A/G is our mission).

As far as radars and systems are concerned, the APG-70 is pretty much the bees knees of mech scanned radars, its really hard to get a better radar than that. Eventually when the APG-82 (AESA upgrade for the strike) comes online fully (some squadrons have them equipped right now in limited numbers) you are looking at another massive leap in terms of capability both A/A and A/G.

Overall while yes the F-15C is still better at A/A since 1) it is their only mission, and 2) they do have the kinematics to be better at it, the Strike Eagle is far far from a slouch, and is quite capable of holding its own.

In the A/G arena, other than direct fire weapons (rockets, Mavericks, guns) the strike eagle is pretty much king of the fighters, we have the ordnance loadout, gas, speed, and targeting capability to do everything, and we are the only TF capable fighter jet still in the inventory, so if you want us to go low or high, we can do it.

Bomb trucks like the A-6 and F-111 went the way of the dodo once the guided bomb and later JDAM concepts came to fruition in the early 90’s. The A-6 was an exceptional aircraft for what it did, but remember its function was a result of the weapons systems it carried. predominantly dumb bombs for single strikes on single targets. Nowadays I can get the same results with a single GBU-31 off of my strike eagle that a whole squadron of aircraft could hope to achieve in vietnam or even up till the mid 1980s when LGB’s started to become more prevalent.

Not saying with upgrades they couldn’t be as capable nowadays, but the reasons for having a dedicated bomb truck fighter nowadays are limited and practically nonexistent, especially as threats become more and more dangerous.

I’ll defer to boomerang on the hornets capability, but both in combat experience in the desert, and in red flags with everything upto and including F-22’s and the best fourth gen assets out there that the USAF and our allies can provide, the Strike eagle is the only truly capable multirole fighter I’ve seen, it has the systems, the fuel, the loadout, and the SA in the cockpit to be able to succesfully accomplish multiple missions on a single sortie at the same time.

I’ve been in multiple red flag vuls where of the 50 plus aircraft rolling out the door to accomplish the mission, including dedicated A/A players, dedicated striker jets, and every combination of assets you can think of, the Strike Eagles were the lynchpin for everything, usually tasked with both striking some priority target, and dropping a SAM system on the way in to enable other players freedom of movement, and holding down a BARCAP. All at the same time, and if we fall out then the mission is usually not a go.

8 Likes

This is all nice and everything, but their going to be looking for you guys up there in fast jets and stuff, we should load up Sopwith Camels with hand grenades on carriers, nobody’s going to be expecting that!

4 Likes

Or Hueys with a guy in the back with an Assault RIfle!
image

3 Likes

It’s worth remembering that the original A-model Tomcat came equipped with TF30 engines, which were notorious for being underpowered for the design (which made the first Cats slow) and they tended to shed compressor blades at very inconvenient times.

But, when the F110 got shoehorned into the engine bays, it became a completely different fighter.

And remember, this guy flies these things for a living.

1 Like

Thanks for your insight! I thought you’d be along shortly to correct a lot of the myths and legends I’ve been spouting.

Believe it or not but the F-15E is one of my most favorite aircraft – but I’d still pick an F-22 over it in an A2A engagement. Just the same as I’d pick something else for COIN. :slightly_smiling_face:

I will add that the most dangerous threat to aircraft has always been and will always remain the crew – the ones that fly it and the ones that maintain it.

Once again, apologies to all for the massive thread drift.

Pfft, would be a lot easier to maintain if those that flew it weren’t so insistent on trying to get themselves killed :wink:

Well, that’s why the USAF is the best branch: the enlisted men send the officers off to die!

I don’t think that this has been linked yet but there is a good look at the new display. There will be smudges!

No mention of the SM-6. Looks like they dropped it.

I don’t believe it was ever picked up to begin with. That was just the author spitballing.

Everyone gets conformal fuel tanks!

1 Like

There are even CFTs for humans!
http://www.thegearcaster.com/gcimages/6a01156f7533eb970c0120a95635b3970b-320pi

3 Likes

I need it!

2 Likes

Good News! Camelbak sells those in a good variety of sizes. :slight_smile:

1 Like