'Tort de clatite' or just pancake !? ( To VR, or Not to VR? )

Indeed there is not. Try it, buy it at a place that allows a refund if you keep puking your guts out after three days. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as the Man would say.

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@NEVO , you are a real world helicopter guy… you need VR ;). I’m not ready to give up my physical controllers, but I rarely fly in 2D. 2D is better for airliners I think, but that’s about it.


The buttons on HOTAS are designed to be able to use by feel which is why they are so easy to use and very quick - nothing better for a pilot currently- the VR controllers are naff in comparison.

Define simmer because 99% of simmers probably already have a monitor - also wonder how many years it takes from someone playing sims with a keyboard and monitor to gradually going to more and more higher end hardware. Experienced simmers will forget this - not just a money thing but a keyboard or basic joystick is always good enough until you take the next step.

VR needs significant advancement to make it more practical and affordable for the majority instead of a tiny minority with high end PCs. I wonder if AR might be a more viable future!

Current issues with VR to consider include being cut off from others in the house or 12 litres of sweat dripping down your face in summer. 1-1 head movement also useless if you have neck issues!

Rift S is easy to set up but I don’t recommend it to anyone.

These are no issues for me actually. This hobby is ‘winter sport’ for me. And I do sim only late in the evening and during the night when usually everyone at home is already in bed :slight_smile:

good point! and they usually dont use even head tracking devices.

I am gravitating towards G2 unit. Obviously! :smile: But hey, how about the better tracking of the base stations of Vive / Index? And how about the Pimax Artisan? It can work without the base stations initially (only 3DOF) and is cheaper. Hmmm…

good point also. In EU if bought online, you can return it within 14 days. Wondering why Pimax has statement that they refund only within 7 days and the thing needs to be untouched. It contradicts the EU policy, doesnt it?


exactly… the question is do I need (to experience) the next step? :smile: (sweet ignorance)

Yes…yes you do. VR rejuvenated the hobby for me. It isn’t perfect for all things (ie airliners), but for everything else, it’s a whole new ballgame IMHO.

I own an Index, and recently had the opportuniy to borrow a G2 for two weeks. I came to the conclusion that it wasen’t worth the hassle to sell the Index, in order to buy a G2.
However, if I were buying my first VR set (for simming!), I would go for the G2 over the Index.
For me, the Index had a larger FOV and larger sweetspot, while the G2 had the better resolution.
As for tracking, I only noticed a difference when playing games like Alyx or pistolwhip, where the lighthouses are superior. For simming I don’t think it matters all that much.

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Wait. VR “isn’t perfect” for airliners?!

Au contraire, mes amis!

Airliners cockpits in 2D are tiny little flat places that give no impression of both size and crampness. Bending to see around the FOs seat to make sure that Bulk cargo is in “Vent” rather than “Norm” is one of hundreds of subtle signals to let you know how the space works in real life. I would submit that I need VR for max enjoyment in the airliner even more than for something like the Pitts because the benefits of “feeling” the space are more meaningful.


Yup. In the preceding several years I hadn’t “played” any combat flight sim (Falcon BMS, DCS, etc) much at all. Maybe once every few months. Had gotten stale I guess, after 30 years.

The sensation of actually being in a “thing”, moving in 3D space isn’t likely to get old for a while. What I see is it reaching a point I can’t justify the cost. Looking at you current GPU market!

And [feeling like] a resident Dead Horse Jockey: the Haptic thing is a significant bonus. Both come with side effects. But I can’t whip that poor lil pony any more.


Good points Eric, but until you can sit in the virtual cockpit and comfortably brief a SID, STAR and IAP then you can’t really conduct the whole flight in VR… I guess you could just get rid of the goggles for those portions though. For cockpit familiarization, I can definitely see the value of being in the 3D environment.

That is pretty much a mirror of my experience too…sims were getting a bit boring…and then VR changed things completely.

That’s true. But in some cases the functionality you seek is already there. EFB plugins like RealityXP let you view charts within the EFB so you never need to leave the space to get the info you need. I don’t know how this works in MSFS but I imagine that the functionality is there too. Or will be soon.

So I ironically have gone the opposite direction. I still have my full CH setup in my man cave, track IR, wide screen monitor etc. I honestly turn that computer on once every few months. I do the vast majority of my sim’ing in my recliner using a twist grip joystick on a latop. I fly easily 2-3 hours a night 5-6 days a week, compared to 4-5 hours once a week in my man cave back in the day.


I would stress that actually any cockpit in 2D is similar to what you described right there. Thats why it is sometimes hard for me to buy any new module as I cant see any value to have/see that plane on pancake. If the plane is somehow familiar to me then ok, if not I am not interested usually.

And we agree, I would think, with what jross stated here :

Inspired by your example I tried that also some time ago. But it just dont work for me. I mostly play xplane and it needs good PC. I also play IL2 in multiplayer and that needs voice coms with the human wingman. My laptop isnt good enough and sitting in living room talking to mic is kind of disturbing to the environment :slight_smile:

Watched more videos… now I think I want Pimax Artisan…

I keep repeating myself but the experience is so meaningful that I feel that if I can convert just one more person I will have served the hobby. Even though helicopters are my “sim thing” I do seek out airplane experiences on rare occasions. My discovery of the VSKYLABS DC-3 coincided with a brief affair with Air Hauler 2. To fly the thing with VR controllers I can do it normal-like and grip the NW corner of the wheel. But sometimes I am more comfortable flying Chewie-style (casual) with my arm resting on my lap and my hand gently riding the base of the wheel. Now, a little left slide of my hand rolls right and right rolls left (just like in a car). VR controls are the ONLY way to experience this. Neither a Warthog HOTAS nor a Saitek yoke is a DC-3. A Vipril collective is no Chinook. We all have our prefered devices but the geometry of the aircraft being modeled isn’t negotiable. There is only one way to understand how your hands might move in the real machine.


I like both but if you’re going pancake, get a regular 55" (minimum) 4K TV placed approximately 2.5 to 3 feet from your focal point. Cheap and effective. :slight_smile:

The idea here is to simulate a reasonable and true to life field of view.

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I think I am the believer. Really looking forward to try this style of controlling the ships.

I have exactly the same size and spec but somehow for me its getting old.

But definitely agree with the ‘true to life’ FOV approach. Thats why I am looking at Pimax Artisan with its 140° FOV.
Artisan is for reasonable price, have good specs and noticed that the Pi customer service improved based on the recent comments.


Ok then, welcome to the “trying to get clear visuals with my VR headset” club. :smiley:

I guess that it will be ‘long run’ to get there like it was with pancake monitors until the 4k ress was introduced and the GPUs to push it got afordable. But I am ready to do some compromise in this regard.

What bothers me more is that Pimax can ship the standalone headset with free shipping in EU while the modular audio straps, with price tag around 120 gold, are shipped for 50 gold.

So still staring at used Index kit for 800 pieces of gold. You can still talk me out of it @dachsdk :slight_smile: The better FOV and 120 Hz (comparing to eg. G2) are the spelling pints for me.

Haha, well, my dream VR headset would be the FOV and sweetspot of the Index, combined with the G2 resolution. And the lighter weight of the G2, come to think of it.
The faster refresh rate I don’t know about, I’ve never been particular sensitive to that, and can’t really tell the difference to be honest.
I dont think you can go wrong with any of them, they each have their drawbacks and advantages, so… buy both I gues? :smiley: :vr: :vr:

Edit: That didn’t really help any, did it? :laughing:

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