When is a Hornet like an onion?

[chipwich]

When you are trying to learn it top to bottom in preparation for a campaign. Good grief this thing has many layers. I feel like I could study it for years, as in DCS, the Hornet Simulator.

From the Raven One Dominant Fury Guide, the skillset needed and my checklist of the items that I feel familiar with, although not necessarily proficient. Some processes, like A2G, I know most, but far from everything. Have not dropped JDAMs in anger yet.

REQUIRED SKILLSET - COMPLETED [X]
CASE I landings X
CASE II landings X
CASE III landings X
Formation flying X
Waypoint creation and management X
Bullseye referencing (have basic understanding, but not how it might best be used on some of the pages, like SA or HSI)
Air to air refuelling X
ATFLIR operations X
A-A weapons employment X
A-G weapons employment
Countermeasures use X

I guess that if it were easy, that the campaign wouldn’t be much fun.

[WarPig]

Well put! It looks like you’ve honestly got most of it down. JDAMs, Mavs and LGB’s are all pretty simple once you understand the flow. It’s amazing how ‘powerful’ the Hornet can be, despite its inherent airframe limitations in terms of range, speed and payload.

The great thing it has going for it, and the reason I think it’s one of the best modules to start with in DCS, is that the fundamentals of flying and fighting the aircraft are relatively easy. It’s a very user-friendly aircraft in terms of FCS, switchology and systems. And if you don’t want to dive into the complex stuff, it’s still very effective and easy enough to use effectively. The fancy stuff like the HMD, Datalink/SA Page and everything else just makes you more powerful, it’s not strictly required to fly and fight the aircraft.

Being able to get a drink from the tanker sure is though. Geez that thing needs legs… As much as I hate double ugly, that’s become my go-to configuration for a lot of missions.

I guess the fact that I chose to build my simpit as a hornet instead of an F-16 says a lot about how much I like the aircraft. Now that it’s nearing* completion, I’m trying to decide whether to build a Viper or Tomcat next!

(*Two more weeks)

[Torc]

I’ve just about worked out HARMs and am moving on to JDAMs next… I’m still leaving the HARM cheat sheet in my kneeboard pages though, I’m not sure learning JDAM won’t just overwrite the HARM flow in my brain!

It’s a shock coming from something like the Mirage where, sure, there are a bunch of dark tiny switches hidden around the cockpit that you need to find but once you get it started there’s not much else to do other than go look for the bandits.

I will say, the best thing about the Hornet IMO is the datalink presentation on the SA page. Getting instant gen from the E-2 or E-3 without having to make a picture call and then interpret it makes the air to air work so much easier.

[Whiskey_two]

The datalink and the way it’s presented both on JHMCS and displays is truly incredible within the context of DCS. Wags having referred to the Viper as a slightly ghetto Hornet is most true in this area.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Hornet, although incomplete, has depth and layers that encourage continuous learning.

@chipwich when you set into mastering bullseye, a couple notes:
-the jet will come preloaded with WP59 set to the bulls location, if set by the mission planner (BD does)
-you still must tell the jet to use WP59 (or any WP, for that matter) as the bullseye by following HSI-DATA-desired WP-A/A WPT

Once selected; the following will occur:
-SA Page, w/TDC Assigned - will display cursor OR TUC (target under cursor) bearing and range from Bulls at top left. Useful trick here, you can gain the same functionality on a datalink track when TDC is not assigned to SA by using the STEP function.

-SA Page, bulls WP will be permanently displayed with a fixed North reference arrow

-ATTK RDR Page WITH TDC assigned, cursor will display cursor OR TUC bearing and range from bulls at top left. Important note: when TDC is not assigned to ATTK RDR and a track is not set as L&S, the bulls display in top left will default to the “stowed” cursor position (the upper left quadrant default position), this can be deceiving because of course nothing useful is usually at that location.
Off the top of my head, ownship B&R from bulls is displayed at bottom left on ATTK RDR.
Edit-oh, and bulls WP location will now be displayed on ATTK RDR with a north reference arrow.

When navigating using Bulls, note that the cursor on both pages is not ground stabilized, i.e. as you turn towards the area of interest your cursor will rotate with the motion of the jet. It takes manipulation of the cursor to maintain indication of desired location. This can be overcome by setting an offset point from the bulls WP, or by slewing the TGP to desired location and designating a target point.

Hopefully that all makes sense, I’m posting before coffee

[WarPig]

That’s a great write-up, thanks taking the time, I learned a few things!

[chipwich]

Great info W2. I guess that the SA page can be an onion of its own, albeit a very helpful one. I had forgotten about JHMCS integration, although the info has probably been there all along. I have so much to learn, which makes me wonder if the training missions will ever get updated. Most likely will need to come from the community.

[Whiskey_two]

@Chuck_Owl is always the go-to resource, if you’ve not already looked at his manuals.

I’d be happy to jump into a server and chat through things as well.

[Bearhedge]

I am back in the Hornet and all that @chipwich said above resonates…

I found that, while I can’t do a cold start right now, having only learned the basics before a year off DCS, once up in the air, I can go and have some light fun right away, because the basic switchology is quite intuitive.

I didn’t have the headspace last night to study the sim so just hopped on a pve mp server and took a hot start Hornet for a flight.

I flew that same bird all evening, maybe 8 or 9 short hops, and brought it home in one piece…that was unexpected! Bagged one AI fighter (admittedly with a caged AIM-9x because I couldn’t find him with the radar and couldn’t even uncage the seeker in the heat of the moment) and did a few successful CBU/GBU CCIP runs. Ran 3 SAMs to the ground and jousted with a Shilka until my ammo ran out.

I do need to get some structured learning underway to really be able to employ the Hornet but it is nice that it is approachable enough to jump right back in in the meantime.

[Maico]

Im a bit late to the party but Im here now. Been flying it for a couple of weeks. This weekend I got to learn the JDAMS. And if you can throw JDAMS at them, you can throw JSOWs at them as well. Very similar.
Tricker is just Awesome! He is fun without being vulgar or straying off subject. Its an easy listen. This Video got me on point with the JDAMS. Only mistake I made was using 500 pounders against tanks. They sometimes dont get the job done. Take the 1000 pounders LOL.

Ripple Release 8 JDAMs in ONE Pass with Ease | DCS F-18

[schurem]

I thought I’d give the Arctic Thunder campaign a go, but I’m throwing in the towel in in disgust.

On mission one, they want me to put the TPOD on some Russians. First using an offset that puts my camera in the middle of nowhere. Then she rattles off some coordinates. I needed to make four seperate trips to the message history window to get them. And what to do with them? Google only barfed up ai generated bullshit and reddit cunnies telling some to RTFM. So to chuck I turned. Got the chords set, nothing there. Turned on labels, looked up in Chuck’s how to do HMD designations and got the script to continue.

Then it wanted me to run an intercept on a bullseye offset. By the time I had that figured out, I was low on fuel and the target nowhere to be found.

Well F this ■■■■. If the campaign designer just assumes you play the thing like a fiddle, instead of gently teaching you, how the fork are you ever supposed to learn such tricks?!

@Baltic_Dragon I ain’t happy, thought this was accessible for the likes of me but it clearly is meant for my betters.

[NEVO]

… grinning in my Spitfire …

[NEVO]

Hornet like onion

[ sorry mate I just had to ]

[Maico]

I think ED needs a new game. ADC
Analog Combat Simulator…

[chipwich]

Reflected’s Fear the Bones is pretty approachable, as long as you can find a flashlight to start the Tomcat and don’t mind shooting a night trap on your first cycle Need to fly that one again, now that I’ve added FFB. Heard that it’s pretty good in the F-14.

[Derbysieger]

@schurem

I ain’t happy, thought this was accessible for the likes of me but it clearly is meant for my betters.

I get that it’s frustrating but on the other hand you can’t make everything a training campaign so a lot of these campaigns (especially stuff by reflected and bd) expect you to know your way around the aircraft pretty well before you attempt to fly the campaign. Reading the briefing and the provided documentation is also very much recommended (I even would go as far as to call it a requirement). There are of course more accessible campaigns but especially the hornet is quite a beast to master. For example I have never warmed up to the way the HOTAS is implemented in the Hornet, especially for A/A, so pretty much all I do is fly it around the Carrier and occasionally drop a bomb. For Air to air I go to the Viper, Tomcat or the Phantom as well as the Fulcrum these days. The Viper has a very intuitive and easy to use HOTAS and in the Tomcat and Phantom you have someone in the rear seat to take care of the important stuff. The Fulcrum is, well, Russian. Not really comparable to western aircraft. Different doctrine and all that.

[schurem]

I know, but sometimes the campaign docs and/or in-game documentation (kneeboard) or voiceover will fill in gaps that can be expected to be there when looking at the training that comes with the module. So if the training has taught you how to point the pod using the HUD, it would make sense for the campaign to assume that knowledge. But if it takes trolling through a 800 page chucks’ guide, watching ten outdated youtube vids and there’s nothing in the campaign docs to even give a slight pointer, I call that bullcrap.

I don’t mind a little technical wizardry, heck I like it! that’s what I bought those modern DCS modules for, eh? If I wanted to kick the tires, light the fires and just fire the guns in the general direction of an enemy (and then have my engine inexplicably seize up₁) I’d run a ww2 module.

1 Seriously, shouldn’t it rattle, wheeze and cough a little before conking out, even if exaggerated compared to the real thing to warn the player of impending doom? It’s why the Heatblur modules rattle and shake so much, way more than a properly maintained jet would.

[Derbysieger]

@schurem

I don’t mind a little technical wizardry, heck I like it! that’s what I bought those modern DCS modules for, eh? If I wanted to kick the tires, light the fires and just fire the guns in the general direction of an enemy (and then have my engine inexplicably seize up1) I’d run a ww2 module.

I know some guys that are really into the Hornet. They study the NATOPS, run trainings that include simulated emergencies, complex scenarios, including danger close situations where they rattle down nine-lines like it’s nobody’s business as well as complex near peer conflict scenarios. Most of them also highly recommend stuff like arctic thunder. I think you might simply not be the target audience for this kind of campaign. I know I am not when it comes to the Hornet, I simply never warmed up enough to it to do more than drop some bombs and do a shitton of CASE I and CASE III recoveries (I seriously love doing that, putting warheads on foreheads with the hornet is optional to me but landing on a carrier I can do all day every day ). Reflected’s Arctic thunder campaign for the Viper on the other hand is on my shopping list though. I really like the Viper as a weapons system, can’t say the same about the Hornet.

[smokinhole]

@schurem I feel ya brother! This isn’t like Baltic Dragon to hit you quite so hard in mission one. Only the campaign designer knows which of the myriad minor skills will be needed over the course of his creation. Maybe a preamble training mission would have been in order to blow the dust off some of those skills.

[chipwich]

I suppose that the challenge for campaign designers is to either go with the slow ramp, or make the first mission challenging and therefore memorable. There are sound arguments for both. I really like the option to have full realism refueling, or optionally skip for those who are challenged in that one discipline. Maybe the campaign price should reflect the complexity.