This is just an opinion, and comments are welcome.
I recently saw a video covering Winwing’s products at FSExpo 2025. The YouTuber interviewed the rep and asked a question about their low prices. According to the rep, the company’s commercial projects are quite lucrative, which allows them to lower the costs of their simulation products, despite the latter not being lucrative or even cost-effective. He stated despite that, the company remains profitable. The rep is a rl 737 pilot and simmer and believes in the company’s philosophy of bringing quality hardware at low cost to the simulation community. Hearing that made Wingwing’s stock go up for me.
I used to be brand-loyal to TM but made the switch to WW when my Warthog throttle died. I intend to switch to their product line once my TM stick gives up the ghost.
I’m a simmer on a budget, and Winwing allows me to have cool toys without breaking the bank.
I still think that the TM Warthog grip (not the base) is the best constructed one that I’ve ever had. So much so, that I recently bought a new one (they are getting harder to find) to replace to original, and promptly mounted it on my Moza AB9 base.
I was looking at the WW web site this morning at Throttles. Just looking.
There’s no such thing as a free lunch…
Companies usually don’t make things with the intent to lose money on them.
In this case I’d call it internal subsidizing.
Price dumping would be selling at a loss to gain market shares.
Let’s face it, Flightsim peripherals is a niche market and getting a foot in the door can take some time.
You’ll get more customers by selling within a price range more people can afford to buy.
If a new brand of products is cheaper, it’s probably because they want to establish themselves…
Old CH Products had a good thing going making industrial grade controllers. They sold some solid flightsim gear, but could make a lot more money selling pro gear for the industry, so they did.
Like these guys… They come from a solid reputation as good racing gear. Wouldn’t be surprised if the racing earnings are put to work establishing a similar rep in the flightsim community. Nothing wrong with that.
Made the first Thrustmaster compatible stick grip, unless you count TM’s Cougar and Warthog sticks.
Virpil arrived at a time when it looked like TM were getting out of the Flightsim market. They managed to make their stand and have a good customer base.
We flightsimmers have several very good controller brands to chose from these days.
I’m really interested to see Mozas throttles in the wild, and Virpils newly announced FFB sticks.
I’d love to see a FFB throttle… Auto throttles would be really cool, but also FFB induced detents and locks that you can swap between aircraft modules or sims, by the press of a button.
Agreed on TM quality and construction. I had my set for a long time. Like my dad, I try to fix first before I replace. I was unable to fix my throttle because I couldn’t find a PCB board. When I got my WW throttle, I debated replacing my TM stick, but like they say, “If it isn’t broke…”
Years ago, around the time when ED released the A-10 module, CH made a high-end A-10 HOTAS. I saw the unit at IITSEC. I believe it was created as a COTS option for the military and simulation companies.
I’ll see if I still have the marketing material I had from the show and upload a scan. It was a while back so I may have gotten rid of it. We’ll see.
I am interested in quality stick base with extension for some years now
never both one . and despite ww being great cost-effective choice ( been browsing their eshop recently ) I think it is wise to wait a bit more with all the new ffb stick bases just behind the corner .
still using good old X55 with diy extension and X56 throttle . its terrible how cheap I am
Brunner had Moza beat by several years…
And there seems to be a market for several different non-FFB joystick bases, so why would FFB bases be different? Different designs, different quality and price, software, etc. There are numerous ways producers can compete. And I’m 100% sure WW and VPC has tested the competing products and I’m equally sure that they aren’t simply making copies. Both VPC and WW has shown that they can think outside the box and deliver something unique.
But how well they succeed, remains to be seen.
Brunner isn’t exactly price friendly. They make good equipment, no doubt about it, but their products are out of reach for a lot of people. Moza entered the market at a much more accessible price point while still providing a high quality product. So, WinWing and Virpil will have to either under-cut Moza, or come in with a better product at a competitive price point. Time will tell.
I hope that they all succeed, because the consumer wins.
To add what Paul said about competitive pricing, Moza had a proven track record bringing good products to market in the driving simulation FFB space, a group equally demanding to to flight sim enthusiasts. They took on Fanatec, Thrustmaster, and a gaggle of prosumer and professional driving control manufacturers. Now they have revealed an entry level FFB stick, which I predict will be a big hit.
They are certainly not perfect. A firmware update ended compatibility with my TM Hornet and Tianhang F-16 grips. So, I look forward to seeing what the others bring.
And not Direct X compatible, at first, requiring proprietary software. But they were way ahead of Moza. So beating someone to the market doesn’t mean you’ll do better. This is not the 100m dash Moza was hardly the first in the racing sim market, yet, they have carved out a niche for themselves there.
Which is how competition works.
Both Virpil and WinWing are innovative and have a proven track record.
So instead of asking how well they will sell, being a year behind Moza, I’d ask how well they will sell having been able to learn from Mozas products and launch.
We, the consumers, are in for a treat!
We will have 3 major players competing for our money.
Never thought I’d see the day.
I hope the FFB market is big enough…
Maybe future simmers will laugh at our spring centered joysticks?
I guess my point was that being behind Moza in getting to market with a good quality, reasonably priced product, a lot of potential customers will have already gone with Moza. I kind of doubt I will be buying a VirPil or WinWing FFB base because I already pulled the trigger on the AB9 months ago.
And a lot of existing Virpil and WinWing customers, who never heard of Moza, will wait and see… But the thing is that being late to the market has not been a problem before, so why would it now?
C’mon, Paul… We both know how this will end if VPC or WW release something new and shiny, with a single little feature that Moza doesn’t have…
This little niche market we flightsimmers are so interested in is dear to me. Having realistic controller hardware has always been a priority to me, ever since my Amiga 500 days.
Thrustmaster were among the first, if not the first, brand that made controllers based on real controllers. They introduced (the god aweful) Mini DIN5 connector and the M36 nut connector that has become somewhat of an industry standard, that others have copied.
They recently launched their AVA joystick base, with friction dampers and cams… Now they are releasing some extras…
Virpil users will probably recognize some features.
This is illustrates my comments on being first into a market… If competition works, newcomers will improve on existing products which hopefully will spark a reply from the established producers.
Moza was hardly the first in the racing sim market, yet, they have carved out a niche for themselves there.