I asked the question because I wonder about DCS and the constant Bob up-and-down yo-yo effect? This tendency is even apparent on Models with EFM and PFM. Surely this can’t be accurate? I know On aircraft with digital flight control systems and auto trim, you should never get this affect. However there aren’t a whole lot of those in the game at this point in time.
I’m just wondering if there is anybody here with stick time that can confirm or deny the flight Model of DCS?
-Woog
which module are you referring to?
From what I can tell it is working fine. The real pilots that I have flown with have never mentioned anything in the flight model that seems to reflect what you are describing. Can you be more specific?
The Eurofighter doesn’t bob.
It’s unnervingly rock steady…
That said, when it comes to fighters, the flight behaviour in DCS is quite believable for me.
You’re a Typhoon driver? Awesome.
Well, no.
Not really, I only experienced the FCS of the Eurofighter in the plane’s military sim. For oh- over 300 hours.
And I want to stress it, it’s not a simulation of the EFA, it’s THE plane’s FCS rehosted in a server and supplied with a synthetic environment.
Whatever happens in the plane happens in the simulator and I talked to enough pilots to know it’s the truth.
Beside the fact the military teach to the trainee how to handle the plane with that simulator- quirks and all.
And that the simulator was used to find a mistake in the EFA flight manual.
Are you sure it’s not a PIO?
When it comes to simulators, I have yet to fly one that behaves and feels exactly as the real airplane does. The systems are pretty much 100% of course, but even with all the performance figures being exactly on the mark, it still feels somewhat artificial to me (I’m talking about Level D sims here). Maybe military sims are better at modeling the nuances of the atmosphere?
I doubt they’re noticeably better. They’re definitely still more procedural and systems trainers than anything else.
They’re probably about as good as it gets but they’re certainly not perfect.
I remember having to do a sim on out of control flight procedures and the sim simply would not depart the way you wanted. In order to get close to the desired effect, they had to freeze the sim and start it in a preset scenario with the spin already plugged in once you came off freeze.
I’m with the others in that, outside of airframe specific nuances that I probably wouldn’t have knowledge of, the overall experience is “believable.” I do remember some weird roll-off tendencies with the F-15 but it’s been a while since I’ve booted DCS so I don’t know if it’s a thing anymore. Again, I’d characterize the overall experience as good.
I dunno, it was no fast jet, but flying a Cessna 172 pretty much felt like sitting behind a desk 
moved as fast too.
You have to be more specific. Well before being more specific I should say that I’ve never flown anything past M.88. Perhaps the question is more about really fast jets. Everything in my experience has been dynamically stable. So no bobbing. I have had joysticks that did that. My old Logitech G940 did it until an update just prior to support ceasing altogether. What it was doing was applying a fine, pixel-by-pixel when the joystick was in motion but once motion stopped any subsequent input registered an output more than a pixel, no matter how small the input. Or something like that. The takeaway was that it was difficult to trim to zero because the slightest motion in pitch made PIO-ing nearly impossible to avoid. I find DCS to feel very accurate at normal angles of attack–especially the Su25/t.
Ya I’m not sure what you are talking about, sounds like a PIO or controller curve setup issue etc. The only jet I have issues with bobbing up and down is the mirage, and that is due to how it’s fcs works and I have just never given it enough practice to smooth that out. F-15Esdont have any issues with that. Passing thru the transonic region you will have some forward pressure on the stick and light buffet, but otherwise, it’s a smooth ride. The F-15c in game mirrors its FCS fairly well (they are essentially the same in both jets) but with the obvious performance improvements the C model will have over the E.
Which aircraft specifically are you having issues with? Sounds like a trim induced PIO or something like that.
Bobbing. I can only remember Jane’s F-15 when I think of bobbing. That thing bobbed.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to the post. Maybe bobbing is the wrong term, but when I relax pressure on the stick, the nose kind of “Rebounds” back to a 0° AOA. This is apparent in almost every module. In the roll axis, there is a weird feeling as well. I was just curious to know if any real Fast jet pilots have an opinion of the DCS flight models. It almost feels to me like a combination of factors, like the center of gravity is modeled as an airplane on stick with springs attached to both wingtips nose and tail.
Maybe I can make a video to illustrate what I mean a little better…
DCS is the only Simulator that exhibits this behavior, and the Cessna 172 I train in real life on, does not either.
really depends on the specific plane, the flight model varies across them. For example, its entirely possible to fly off the carrier with the Su-33’s wings still folded. The F5 requires a lot of trim to get level flight depending on speed, they just all fly different from each other. I would say that any of the PFM planes fly as realistic as any sim out there or better. The arcade mode planes (Su-33) will do some crazy stuff.
K that sounds like a stick centering/trimming issue, bring up the stick position indicator (right ctrl-return) and see where the stick is going when you release it, then see where you have it trimmed. If you are flying a plane that requires constant trim (su-27, really any Russian aircraft, any western aircraft that is not the f-15 or the m2000) you will need to trim it to maintain level flight when you release stick pressure. The f-15 and m2000 are the only aircraft in game (right now) that have any kind of auto trimming going on. When I fly either of these I rarely trim them. Every other aircraft requires constant pitch trim to maintain level flight. The Russian jets (su-27/mig-21) are particularly sensitive to and require a ton of trim inputs. If you leave the stick centered on those jets without trim you will get wildly bobbing behavior.
F-15E WSO here and Dcs jets all perform as I would expect flight model and flight control system wise. If you want peculiarities of the 15C, the E has a lot in common, including the FCS so as far as I’m concerned it’s fairly accurate.
Thank you for the good info. Maybe time to plug my Warthog Hotas back in and get it all configured up. I am currently using a cheap T.Flight Hotas stick sitting on my desk. Hopefully that fixes my weird control behavior.
-Woog
Oh, I really agree with this. All of our pilots always claimed that the engines in the sim are not as powerful as the real thing.
That said the FCS in the sim is the plane’s one- so while the weather it flies in is simplified so it’s not advisable to teach heavy weahter flying in it, in any other condition you can bet what happens in the sim is what happens in the plane.
And it’s not just my estimate- having regular contact with instructors, and being part of the lessons most of the time, I see that they actually teach the trainees the behaviour of the plane’s FCS with the sim.
I actually have some funny stories about that, but maye it’s not the right thread… 
Sorry for the hijack.
That’s more than what I’ve ever gotten to do. The closest I’ve come is a 1:1 cockpit mockup of a Block 50 F-16C in Fort Worth, which was a thrill. It wasn’t running actual LM software, though. How in the world did you did you get that opportunity?
Oh you know- regular IT stuff when you happen to be a maintaner for the Italian Air Force Eurofighter Simulators… 