Coming across some Logitech G940 deals

Hardware & Tech Questions
1

Hi guys new user here!

I got back into PC gaming (blame it on the recent lineage of bad macs), and I came across this universe known as DCS (steam version - I’m such a noob). After multiple fails, and with a lot of help from this forum and all your detailed guides, I finally got a little bit of a hang in Flying Cliffs’s F15, at least enough to be able to play some single player. I’m actually progressing in the georgian war campaign right now, and loving it. I know it’s supposed to be easy, and I haven’t got to this point yet, but practice makes perfect…

Now I can’t wait to later on get my hands on a proper HOTAS and to learn the F18. I’m thinking my T.Flight is too limited to fly and operate all of the systems of a complex simulation, especially trimming and operating avionics.

So in my country I’ve come across some good deals on Logitech g940 sets, basically for around 200 USD. My other options could be buying an X56 in the US and gettting it brought over by somebody (wich could take time). Buying the warthog in the us for 450 USD, and doing the same thing. If I try to buy local with all the mad taxing, I’d get:

g940 for 200 USD used, 250 new.
X56 for almost 500 USD
Warthog for 850 USD.
The later both without pedals.

Is the g940 too outdated to work with current gent titles? I know people love or hate it’s FF, and that quality has some issues, but at half the price of the x56 (with all it’s online hate) and with pedals, I’m considering it my best choice.

am I wrong?

And thank you for all your passion. The information here was already essential for me to get back flying!

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Hi there!
I can only speak for myself so- don’t take me too seriously.

The thing is, usually, with simming (I mean playing with simulations) you should go by degree.
When you browse a forum like ours you’ll notice impressive kits- well aside mine, but that’s another point…

Mostly what was achieved is the result of years and years of small sacrifices.
A HOTAS, is not the be-all and end-all of simulations, as you noticed there’s rudders too, head tracking…
Personalised desks, custom made chairs, and on and on.

My suggestions would be, don’t worry too much about getting the best immediately or about status symbols.
Take what you can afford and you’ll notice that skill, usually, can make the difference way more than any special kit can.

G940 is probably an interesting choice, but as you noticed is a Force sensing stick.
For first timers flying is just going to take some time to learn, but if you come from a standard stick- chances are you’re going to need some time (depending on how much you can practice) to adjust and become proficient.

Your objectives are important as well- if you want to master Helicopters then a Force sensing stick is ill suited.

So- in short, nobody here will judge what you will buy. Well except some godless_push-for-power-in-helicopters_ sort of monsters (:P) so buy what you think has the best value and begin your life long project to achieve digital-simulation perfection!

I started with a mere Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback pro- first series and racing wheels pedals…
:slight_smile:
Don’t be afraid, make a choice, stick to it and above all - practice practice practice!
Ask anything you want! We’re all nice guys!

PS: (Avoid @Bogusheadbox, unless you want to hear constant chatter about the F-111. We all KNOW the A-6 Intruder was the best)

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I use the G940 and I like it, but it did require some modifications after a while.
So if you just want a HOTAS that just works out of the box, take the other one.

…that being said: I did use it out of the box for a while despite the small issues I encountered ~2 years after getting it. It is a working HOTAS.

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Really?

I mean, 2 years seems like a good enough lifespan, at least for what I’m paying. I wouldn’t expect the X56 to last that long… But what kind of mods are you talking about?

and @komemiute I definately can see that it can get quite complex in the long term. I think I could get used to the force feedback, it does seem like it’s not very competitive in multiplayer, but that is certainly not my focus… As you said I still think I have some time to go before I can enjoy it and not get killed in every engagement. :slight_smile:

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I removed the rubber-like coating on the stick because it was becoming sticky.
I also opened the throttle and replaced a cable, since it is responsible for problems with the axes jittering around.
After 4 years or so I replaced the pedals because one of the toebrake potis stopped working.

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If you are near .nl you can have my G940 for 150 :stuck_out_tongue: I was quite happy with it until I got a good deal on a 2nd hand warthog.

@komemiute is slightly wrong about the force sensing thing. It is a force feedback stick, not a force sensing stick. The force feedback means it has motors that can exert forces back onto you, simulating wind over control surfaces, vibrations, etc. Neat.

Force sensing is an entirely different beasty. It’s what the Saitek X-65 uses (and the F-16 sidestick) and means the stick itself does not move at all or very little, but it measures how hard you push it. And yes, I reckon that does take some getting used to and sucks for helo’s.

The G940 on the other hand, due to being a force feedback set and containing rudder, cyclic and collective in one set is perfect for helicopter flight.

The reason I consider the warthog an upgrade is three things: 1) metal. The hog grip is hard, cold metal. not plastic. metal! \m/ .2) Accuracy. The hog is far more accurate than the G940 is. That means minute corrections are easier to make, making things that require precision easier to do. 3) durability. The G940 throttle is not well engineered. After about two years of use, it eats its own internal cabling, making the buttons and rotaries on the throttle handles go flaky. This can be fixed quite easily and is best fixed preventively (before the thing has eaten its own cabling). The hog is… milspec tacticool hardware. You can bash a burglars head in with it and it will still as happily allow your virtual A-10 to brrrrrrrrt on the bad guys.

Did I mention metal? metal!

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Thanks for the tips regarding durability, especially if I buy used.

@schurem and @Aginor you guys are getting me excited about the g940. I thought I was going to get discouraged from this post! :slight_smile:

@schurem I’d love to take your g940 out of your hands, but it would take a lot of real life flying to get there, I’m in Brazil! :smile:

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I was always interested by the g940, however never owned nor played with one. Couldnt you also buy instrument panels for it?

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None that I know of.

But I am really torn over it… I have it for 7 years (or so) now and on one side I like the FFB and that it has a 2stage trigger and a lot of “generic” buttons so it isnt as plane specific as thw Warthog for example. On the other hand… yes the quality isn’t like a Warthog either.

I use the software to switch profiles around for different purposes, but the software has its quirks too…

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I had one and was really disappointed by all the issues it has. Turned it back in and got myself a TMHW instead, with Saitek Pedals, which i later replaced with MFG pedals.

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Heh! As usual @schurem is my reality check.
Yes he is right, I confused Force thingies. :slight_smile:

That said all that post is really accurate.
Trust him.

I got myself a TM Warthog, just in case you were wondering. And Saitek rudders, and TM MFDs.
And a track IR. Oh and a custom built desk. Plus an XB 360 joypad and a Microsoft Strategic Commander…

And lots… lots of USB ports… :stuck_out_tongue:

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IMHO, I would recommend saving a bit longer and investing in a Warthog, VKB, or Virpil set. I haven’t tried the later 2, but my WH has had constant use since release (2010?) and other than taking the stick apart and using high quality grease to lube it, has been trouble free. Lesser sticks and throttles just feel like (apologies, but I don’t know any other way to say it) toys. If my Warthog broke today, I’d order another without hesitation.

One thing that I wished that I would have done a long time ago is move the stick to be centered (betwixt legs) like a proper fighter aircraft. With the grip rotated counterclockwise about 15 degrees, it’s amazing how much more precise I can fly and fight (on the chipwich scale, mind you). Highly recommend the MonsterTech mounts.

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yeah this hobby can get bloody expensive pretty rapidly. Get that G940 if you arent afraid to take it apart and do some soldering. the wires in the throttle are too short by design and get chafed.

while you enjoy flying that G940 save up and keep a sharp eye out for a second hand hog. they are that good.

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14

FWIW, the maintenance Aginor mentioned is way more maintenance than either my CH stuff (8 years) or WH (4 years) needed. I also had a G940 and had the issues you mentioned. On top of that it was very sloppy in terms of physical feedback around center, although was very precise in terms of digital input around center. I ultimately got rid of mine in favor of the CH gear (and then later the WH), and have no regrets. I’m glad you’re happy with your G940 Aginor (seriously!), but IMO it’s not worth the $200 Taubkin would need to pay. Personally I’d say it’s worth ~$100 USD, given the lack of continued support and know and well documented flaws. A real shame, as it had the POTENTIAL to be the ultimate “hotas in box.” :frowning:

That said, I agree with Komemiute: focus on other areas first. You’ll get far more “mileage” and enjoyment from a track IR at this point, then you will a new HOTAS. Think of it this way, real pilots don’t use a hat switch when they want to look around; they use their head :slight_smile:

Also, for modern jet combat, you can get by with cheap rudder pedals, but for prop planes (civilian and military), and especially helos, nice rudder pedals are a must.

From there, I’d look to a new hotas.

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15

Ooops, too late! :smile: I actually managed to get the price down to a point where I had not much to sweat about. It should be arriving tomorrow or the day after!

But I should clarify some things: I have been playing with my T-Flight and TrackIR (Yup, I got one of those as well) beautifully in flying cliffs. I had (I probably still do, if I look around my mom’s basement) a Flightstick PRO that I used for most of my old flight sim days. I could bet it’s still working after almost 10 years in some box: I know CH stuff and I know it’s indestructible, precise and smooth. But a CH kit would cost me more than a Warthog…

Besides, prices are truly weird right now with crazy currency exchange rates so what made sense 2 months ago maybe isn’t really working any more. So actually getting something old, that is discontinued and was imported on a good rate is a lot of a better deal than importing a big and heavy box. And I do want to fly the hornet…

But I am sure in some time I’m moving on to some cooler stuff. Probably when I get my feet wet on VR in about 2 years (I’m skipping the 1080p gen). In the meantime, The Logi will give me all the knobs and hats and switches I need, rudder pedals, and if I keep it well maintained, probably last adequately. Besides, I can get one third of the Logi - half of the actual discounted price I got - just by selling my t.flight. It was an easy choice even knowing it’s far from perfect. The current gen competition X56, would be a lot more expensive, and also full of bad rep (although I do think it would also last me a couple of years). But for a temporary solution, I think I made a logical choice.

Now, back to practice so I can get on with some multiplayer missions with you all before my Logi Fails. :smile:

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16

I went through three (3) G940s over the years. The 2nd two were replacements by Logitech. They were kind enough to let me replace what was broken and just keep what was left over in the box. Lacking @Aginor’s mechanical aptitude I eventually gave up and replaced it with a CH. It’s a great system when it works and I think Logitech would have been well served by keeping it going. A friend took all my extra 940 stuff and has been keeping it going for years. Nobody can touch him in Rise of Flight or IL2.

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I use a G940 since it came out. There are some major annoyances which affect flying in the Hornet:

  • Force Feedback does not tightly center the stick but leaves some play. I can move my stick in a smal circle without any resistance from the FFB motors (around 1-2 cm in diameter). This makes AP use or trimmed hands off flying near impossible and also hampers trimming to AoA in the downwind for the Hornet. This is most likely a driver issue that you have to live with.
  • The Throttles have what is called the reversal bug. This is an issue with the drivers that Logitech never addressed although customers were really annoyed in their forums. This will seriously affect formation flying, A2A refueling and of course landing the Hornet. Here is what happens: When you move your throttle in one direction everything is smooth (e.g. you go from 60% to 80%). When you now physically reverse the direction of throttle movement, the driver will not register this until you are above a relatively large threshold (same example as before: you want to move down a tiny bit from your previous increase to 80%, you move the G940 throttle lever but in the sim nothing happens until you suddently end up with 75% which is more than you wanted). My solution was to hardware hack the throttles. I connected the ootb throttle potentiometers to my Bodnar controller and I’m happy now.
  • As other have pointed out, the wiring in the throttle is bound to break. I soldered mine three times (which is pita due to space restriction) and lost the mode switch
  • My pedals where dead on arrival due to very spikey potentiometers. Even the replacement set had the same issue. I threw them in the corner and use MFG pedals for several years now.

On the plus side:

  • The stick is very precise. The x & y axis use optical sensors and are really good.
  • Lot’s of buttons and axis
  • I like the look and ergonomics

It’s a shame Logitech abadonned this product. If they would listen to their customers I’m sure they easily could develop an improved version. My guess is that although they went cheapo on some components they still did not make money with the G940…

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I too had a mixed relationship with the G940. The HOTAS is a great concept, with good looks, good ergonomics, good buttons and FFB. But as mentioned, there are some major quality problems, especially with the throttle and pedals (which I never used). The stick is great and very durable though. FFB became an important thing for me, not for shaking but for force adjustments when trimming (apply stick for level flight, then trim the centering forces away). Unfortunately not all aircraft in DCS implement FFB trimming correctly, but for those that do its great. Il-2 has it too. As @miRage mentioned, depending on the specific software implementation there is often some FFB freeplay around the center, impeding hands-off flying. But with your hands on, the stick is very precise and great for example to fly the helicopters in DCS (in my opinion superior to the TM Warthog)

I used the G940 for many years until I started to loose buttons on the throttle (probable due to breaking wires). At this point I upgraded to the Warthog HOTAS, but was appalled by the horrible WH stick (nice grip, but awful mechanic). I then kept using the G940 stick together with the WH throttle. I eventually retired the G940 when I got my VPC T-50. While the T-50 is a fantastic setup, I still miss FFB for trimming when flying the F-5E or the Huey though.

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Another thing I forgot to mention: there is a sensor on the stick. I taped over it.
But be careful, you probably should plug the FFB power out if you leave the stick alone for a longer period of time (30 min+) to not have it overheat.

@miRage increasing center force worked well for me to make the center more precise

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I’ll try that. I have the stick so long I basically accepted its flaws and did not tinker with it for years (except repairs)