DCS: F-4E Phantom Phorever!

I got wrapped into that interview as well. I think he’s a bit off-base with the comments about the Viper not being a suitable SEAD platform, with the pilots not being trained EWOs, etc. Before the HTS age, he’s right. Post HTS it’s a totally different ball game and reduces the need for an EWO at all. Applying old knowledge to new technology, I suppose.


you put too much faith in these technological marvels of yours. they are insignificant compared to the true power of the force.

Best of both worlds is an EWO with a PhD in electronic wizardry and an HTS.


I nominate this for comment of the year. I have never seen a Star Wars quote used so smoothly.


Eh, I definitely tend to lean in the direction of Starbaby probably has the authority to speak on the topic. Obviously I have no background in EW/SEAD/flying fast jets in combat (and honestly don’t know if you do IRL, if so I’ll happily be swayed), but I don’t think you can replace a dedicated two-seater designed and equipped for SEAD with a single-seater and a strapped-on pod. Listening to his explanations of what the F-4G brought to the table for the Wild Weasels, and the level of training to be able to audibly identify a radar emitter by the sound in your ear (wow!) and not just the RWR, I think he’s correct.

For many missions, yeah a back seater is no longer required (supplanted by technology). But for EW/SEAD, having another brain in the back doing one job, and the guy on the front focusing on flying the airplane seems to be a big advantage even (especially?) today. I can’t imagine trying to operate single-seat in a peer-adversary combat environment and perform the WW mission with the success rate seen in DS. Talk about task saturation/overload…

I think his suggestion of an F-15G would be perfect, and wish the USAF had pursued it.

Yeah, @schurem that was awesome. :joy:


Most of it is just me being wary of the appeal to authority fallacy trap. I tend to question things from a context and logic perspective, which leads to a lot of friction with people, particularly authorities :rofl:

Starbaby’s context is that as an F-4G EWO, the technology at the time only allowed for raw or loosely interpreted data, so a human was needed to interpret that data in the cockpit. His premise is that the technology/context hasn’t changed, but it has. The HTS, and probably other systems, do all of that interpretation for the pilot these days. Dan Hampton seems to have a high regard for the Viper as a SEAD/DEAD platform, but the facts (that we have access to) lean closer to his position than they do towards Starbaby’s, IMO. That said, a guy in the back could be invaluable for keeping visual tabs on potential launches while the pilot has his/her head buried in the HTS/whatever display. Not much different than the Navy’s position on using two-seaters for FAC: task delegation. That wouldn’t require EWO-specific training, though. Being a surface-to-air threat SME like Jell-O was would be enough, I presume.


At one stage of my career, we had RASIT 3190B Ground Surveillance Radars. Classifying targets was done in a very similar fashion - the doppler return was converted to an audible tone. Choppers were easy because you got the ‘audible’ return from the rotor as well as the fuselage.

They were a pretty easy piece of kit to operate (hey, they were designed for Soldiers!) and the course was only three weeks but we had one guy fail because he was literally tone deaf.


when I think about it now, they have been examining me for SEAD/DEAD backseat on my audio checks for civil 1st class medical :rofl:


That initial briefing in Viper Pilot with the Phantom EWO at Spangdahlem was priceless. But even Hampton began coming around later in the book that it was a good idea, if anything, to having a second set of eyeballs.

There, ftfy :stuck_out_tongue:


Waiting for the F-4 like


A second set of eyeballs not specifically EWO-trained, is how I understood it, though it’s been forever since I read the book.

I went down a rabbit hole of curiosity to see how the EWO role evolved since automation made some of their tasks obsolete, plus the AF never replacing the EF-111 role. It looks like Nav/WSO/EWO is now sometimes rolled into one package called CSO (Combat Systems Officer). A lot of that for the defensive EW/ECM stations on older bombers like the B-1 and B-52. Navy still has EWO for the Growler, more focused on jamming and battlespace management than on SEAD, it seems. Kinda like two distinct circles on a Venn diagram merging together over time. With the way people describe the F-35’s sensor fusion and EW suite that diagram may become a circle in the future :joy:


:eyes: :eyes:


This weekend would be sick…


No no no! I want more hype! More vids…
Tease me! :f4:


If they’re both looking to the left, who is flying the plane???

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Fighterpilots will always pose for the camera. It’s a reflex action.


My new day job is commercial but this is not advertising, its a tease. Look at our F4 sim video. Ex RAF full motion sim. (He then doesnt add the link to max out the tease)
If I am allowed I might let you have a freebie. Maybe.




Admin. Delete this please if against the rules, but for @Troll 's sake


Why would that be against the rules? And will it use the DCS phantom when that gets released?