I think both the F-4E and the MiG-21 we have post-date Vietnam by a bit? I believe MiG-21 Bis production didn’t begin until 1972…
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Yeah the BIS is post-Vietnam from what I understand. The F-4E I don’t really know anything about the block numbers. I thought our current one was supposed to be late Vietnam, with the later variants like TISEO being post-Vietnam.
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Think the -E came along about '68, but yes not sure when ‘our’ block number was.
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Q: What variants will the Heatblur F-4 Phantom include?
A: The first release will be DCS: F-4E, the iconic land based variant of the Phantom. We will be launching two variants of the -E; a “classic era” F-4E (blocks 36-45 with updates retrofitted in 1974 and before, including new slats, DSCG and AGM-65) as well as an upgraded (DMAS) version of the aircraft in one package.
Based on that answer it’s a “combo”?
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Good find!
I’m fine with a combo, we can always limit chaff/flares in the mission design (or even just by gentleperson’s agreement) to simulate earlier use.
It’s still less of an anachronism than the 109K we have for WWII 
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No clue on the MiG-21, but for the F-4 had a dedicated chaff pod for laying chaff corridors was about it during Vietnam.
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The only slatted F-4Es in Nam was a small number that turned up in Nov 1972 under Rivet Haste. Some of those had TISEO. Didn’t see much action.
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USAF F-4CDE did not have any decoy Chaff / flares outside of the chaff laying pods mentioned above and the flash flares used by the RF. Mid 70s timescale is fairly accurate.
USN F-4B/J however had ALE-29 under shoehorn from 68/69 period.
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As far as I know, the ASO-2 dispensers (that everybody uses in DCS all the time) are a Jugoslavian modification only. Soviet (and other) MiG-21bis had chaff/flare only with the dedicated jammer/counter-measures pod.
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I was looking this up earlier and found what is claimed to be a MiG-21 Bis of the Soviet 115th Guards Fighter Regiment in Afghanistan with what appear to be countermeasures dispensers… but I can’t confirm the source of the photo.
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Didn’t Reflected say he found a way to fail the slats so it behaved more like a hard wing Phantom? He was going to give us the option in his upcoming F-4 campaign, IIRC?
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Couldn’t we just use this? Gentleman’s agreement also required, unless it’s possible to fail the slats in the ME, I guess.
I vaguely remember some VN book where chaff bundles had been jammed under the, speedbrakes maybe? I can’t remember whether they were in addition to a dispenser or because there were no dispensers.
That wasn’t Flight of the Intruder was it?
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I do recall reading that, but I thought it was from one of the RAF or RN books, maybe Buccaneers? I could be misremembering - and doesn’t the Intruder have perforated airbrakes?
I agree - slats lockout gentleman’s agreement 
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I’ll probably fly the campaign with slats normal so I can learn the F-4E, then refly it the “proper” way if/when we get a stubby nosed Phantom for the role.
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I read that as there will be 2 F-4Es modeled. Just as right now we have 2 F-14s modeled (B and A-135) but 2 more (A-95 and the IRIAF one) on the way.
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Must have been used in various places but can only think of David Morgan & squadron using it in the SHAR in 1982. Although it was Chaff in the speedbrakes still sounds like it required more than sticking plasters to get it to actually retain the chaff and work.
The USN were pretty good at putting internal CMs on their gear…USAF on the other hand seemed less bothered about expendables. UK usually waits till an actual conflict to put sticking plasters on.
Something never mentioned is the IRCM pod (AAQ-8) with strobe jammer that came into service in 1972 in SEA on USAF F-4/A-7.
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Now that you say it, it might have been Sharkey Ward’s book where I read that.
My impression was that it wasn’t so much “stuck on” as it was “closed into” the shut Speedbrake.
Although, now that I say it, that wouldn’t work in most Harriers as the SB is partially down with the gear.
You might be able to stuff it an A-4’s flaps or SB.
Can’t remember where I read it.
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Same. To add to the fog, I’ve read about it in a couple of places, anecdotal in nature, mere one or two sentences - remained in my soft, mushy brain because I thought, “huh, good thinking…”.
IIRC one was the author/subject chastising another for accidentally deploying the speed brake. The F-4 and F-8 even come to mind.
I have too many books to even think about trying to search them all.
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David Morgan says they originally thought about sticking it between a 1000 lb bomb and the weapons pylon.
Then mentions using “Speed Tape” to secure it into the brakes (he also mentions about them being open partially with the gear) but that didn’t work. An engineering officer came up with a mod with welding rods, split pins and string that ended up working. 6 bundles of chaff deployed by use of string attached to a rivet hole is the gist of it.
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