DCS F/A-18C

I assumed that with a Sparrow that was more or less accurate modeling of the missile.

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Men are from Mars, women from Venus and Forum threads are last highway exit before Mordor…

I’m with most of the above comments. I don’t want a random failure off the cat, but I expect that limitations of the systems and weapons (within reason, of course), be modeled.

Some accuracy will always be sacrificed because we’re not gonna publicly acknowledge certain limitations or weaknesses but as long as it’s believable and close enough, I’m ok with it.

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The problem is that in a software simulation you know there’s always the posibility of bugs in the code, so you can’t be sure if the failure is intended or not. So, most users will cry “BUG!” no matter how realistic the failure might be.

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True. That has been the case in my many years of simming. I remember a sim Back to Baghdad Back to Baghdad that was released many, many moons ago. People initially claimed the sim was buggy because it was the first sim, on a DOS platform, that performed close to the real deal - There were many outcries about the radar being “buggy” because pilots could see enemy jets but could not lock them up. There were also complaints about the FM being “buggy” because you couldn’t pull 9G’s indefinitely. Despite confirmations of the sim’s fidelity by current and former Viper pilots the complaints about bugs flooded the forums.

Incidentally, under the directives of George Keverian and Bob Carter, B2B was developed to be “as real as it gets”, which proved overwhelming for casual simmers. People were constantly asking for “realism” but many were not prepared for the level of realism the sim delivered. interesting…

–T

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Sounds familiar… :wink:

And I’m not sure absolute 100% realism is in the flightsimmers best interest…
It’s just not possible to convey flying a real aircraft on a home computer, sitting on a desk.
High end controllers and VR improves the experience, but there’s still a long way to go before someone can actually experience how it feels taking off in a supercharged V12 taildragger, on a PC. You can simulate the physics as close to reality as technology allows, but most of the experience will still be missing.
Interacting with advanced systems via keyboard commands, looking at a 30" screen, containing the entire cockpit is also not how this is experienced in the real world.

It’s just some of the inherent limitations of home computer flightsims. One shouldn’t expect total realism, and nor should one crave it. But in the end, I’m amazed at how much realism that sim developers actually manage to deliver through a computer. There will always have to be a balance, and I think it’s bloody unfair to chase numbers you read in a book, with your flightsim. As long as it’s within reasonable limits, I’m okay with it. But there must be balance! :yin_yang: :sunglasses:

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True. I remember a ruckus about the A-10 ILS not providing DME information and guys just couldn’t accept that it takes the TACAN to get the ranging.

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ILS has no inherent DME function… Bloody hell.

This is an AMAZING truth…

You’re forgetting one fatal flaw–B2B was only “as real as it gets” when it came to the F-16.

It totally failed simulating Baghdad or Iraq or anything approaching an entertainment product.

Sims like Falcon 4 (the original) delivered most everything at a 7 or 8 on a scale of 10. B2B delivered a 10 in one aspect and a series of 2’s and 3’s elsewhere. Great if you’re trying to get a job making software trainers for the USAF (which apparently they did) but not if you’re trying to get a flight simmer to be a loyal customer.

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Like I said; there must be balance… :wink:

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In an article or interview somewhere (I wish I could find it) Keverian stated the company’s goal was to deliver the most realistic simulation of the F-16. B2B was never intended to be a mission simulator. I enjoyed it, for what it was, as I have sims like Falcon 4, Janes, DCS, and others.

–T

Then I submit the company’s goal was incorrect for the market they released the product in. Just because they did what they set out to do doesn’t mean what they set out to do wasn’t a mistake.

Imagine Ford makes a new car with the most advanced and comfortable interior ever created, but they neglected to put wheels on it. “Our goal was to make a car with a revolutionary experience for the occupants, it was never meant to actually move.”

What they SHOULD have done is released that F-16 as an addon for MSFS or some other existing simulator where all their focused efforts could be appreciated, instead of spending 95% of their time on the F-16 and sticking it inside something that looked like Hollywood’s idea of a video game.

Might as well make a first person shooter with the most authentic firearms recreation ever seen that is set in a flat featureless desert with literally nothing to shoot at but the sky or sand. Actually, that pretty much describes B2B’s Iraq.

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Yeah, that exists.

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Nah, I see other players, trucks, walls, signs, buildings…targets.

Take away ALL of that except the sand and the sky. No rocks. No animals. No plants. Absolutely nothing to tell you whether the shot you take is a good one or not, since it only either hits the sand where you can see it or sails too far out to see.

No @Troll, this is not the case…

And this is also not the case @JediMaster imho.

Even if you will feel at the desk everything like in the cockpit, and even if the environment will be exact recreation of the real world, it will still not help a bit.

The real point was made in one sentence inside Falcon4 manual. And this sentence exactly, imho, points out that the ‘recreation of absolute reality’ is not what we wants:

For experienced combat pilots, flying the real F-16 is 99% boredom and 1% adrenaline.

If Falcon 4.0 had the same ratio, nobody would buy the game.

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So, you mean it is possible…?
Well, I disagree. :slight_smile:

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Pssst… everything is possible :innocent:

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Who said anything about reality?

It failed to be entertaining. As for Iraq, B2B’s version was about as close as Las Vegas’ Luxor is to Ghiza.