Don’t forget that the J-20 has unofficially entered service, whatever its intended role may be.
I shouldn’t be laughing as hard as I am…
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It’s role is area denial of high value air assets such as MPAA (poseidons and such), tankers and AWACS. Another important role it plays in the PLAA arsenal is to provide them with stealthy and high performance adversary aircraft to play with in tactical exercises, enabling them to experiment with countertactics against things like the F-35 and F-22.
I vote for 50’s era Korea.
Mig-21. The F-5 really should have been in Vietnam, but that is a discussion for another time. Give me a A-7 to fly, and a working FAC, and I’m set.
Honestly if we want to cover the broadest amount of time periods and aircraft, Israel hands down. You have everything from P-51’s in the 40’s to F-16’s and F-35’s now all in combat against Redfor type aircraft. About the only thing you don’t get is carrier work.
-Jenrick
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The F-5 was in Vietnam, but not the variant we have. Nor was our MiG-21. If we wanted to do it right, we’d need someone to give us a proper variant.
Or… dunno… we could adjust mentally and enjoy it with what we have…
I mean
“Chances to get Vietnam variants” < “Chances of have fun pretending we have them”
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current buzz is Golan heights.
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Not if it’s Korean war-era Korea (to give the F-86, MiG-15, and P-51 a good place to be for example).
I do think an Israel-area map would be good, you could use it with the WWII birds in 48, you could use it with Nam birds in late 60s/early 70s, you could use it with the cold war birds in the early 80s, or you could just go all-in on fictional in other eras.
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Technically, that war hasn’t ended, since no peace treaty was signed…
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lol the main gear on the pig… it looks one of my sons toys. such a cute ol’ bomber plane
Vietnam was the last major air conflict. I know that other than the Huey and F-4E that the current F-5 and MiG-21 are not period correct. Should the MiG-19 arrive, couldn’t we make the F-5 and MiG-21 more appropriate by limiting ordinance? Or just let it play out to even the odds? Too bad that a MiG-17 is not on deck.
What counts as acceptable is different from person to person. “Our” MiG didn’t come out until US involvement in the Vietnam war was essentially over. It has a different engine, twice the hardpoints, a different gun, a radar that works fundamentally differently, a different cockpit and more gas than the MiGs used by the VPAAF. Likewise “Our” F-4 is an upgrade two years younger than the fall of Saigon. It has CCIP, a TV EO system akin to the F-14s, and a number of other upgrades that make it a more effective fighter-bomber. The F-5 could probably do well enough, but if we’re playing it “realistically”, you’d never see a MiG in it.
So my question is it still “Vietnam” if instead of closing to VID enemy aircraft, you can see them from afar with TISEO and take long range Sparrow shots as intended? Is it still “Vietnam” if you can dispense with the vertical maneuvering that defined dogfights in the F-4B/C/D because a slatted F-4E actually turns better in the horizontal than the relatively heavy MiG-21Bis? Is it still “Vietnam” if the MiGs aren’t making hit and run attacks because they suddenly have the fuel to loiter longer and the missiles and ammo to make it count? Is it still “Vietnam” if you’re not forced to juggle six balls while trying to dive through a wall of flak and AAA to hope to put your bombs within a football field of the target, and can instead put the pipper on the thing and be relatively assured of hits? To me that sounds like an average day for USAFE circa 1980 with fewer Floggers and more palm trees.
To me these things fundamentally alter the makeup of a conflict defined by asymmetry and compromises enforced by technology and politics. I’d probably make due for a week or two, but like the Sabre and -15 and Normandy, without a massive investment of supporting assets the novelty quickly wears thin.
But that’s just me, and everyone is entitled to their opinion 
. I don’t want to continue to be the fun police, so I’m gonna let this lay.
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I agree that we need the correct versions, for correct conflict. Especially in a sim like DCS.
If not, it would be a sort of «1946» scenario.
«‘Nam 80’s What if the war continued?»
Could be fun, but not what I’m looking for…
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I fully agree with you guys. Historical accuracy, or authenticity in the case of fictional scenarios, is very important to me. A Vietnam war sim with the attitude “a MiG-21 is a MiG-21” would leave me disappointed.
I really like what 777 is doing with Il-2. They make a new theater and the specific aircraft variants that operated there. I think they are making a fantastic job and set the standard with their focus on delivering a complete package and great historical experience.
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All the planes F5E, MiG21BIS, F4E, F14A, fits perfectly into Iraq vs Iran scenario.
Plus if AvioDev finish the MirageF1 and RAZBAM change their mind and create Mirage5 instead of Mirage3 we would have almost everything we need.
Ok MiG25 and MiG23 after Hornet, thx ED
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I understand that a proper MiG21 version would be necesary for maximum realism, and I respect that.
My point is that I see unlikely DCS 3rd parties getting down and make alternate versions of airframes…
But gods I hope to be wrong on this one!
In any case I’d rather play a not 100% realistic Vietnam (with caveats and self-applied limiting rules) than no Vietnam at all…
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On the other hand it will be interesting, with curent and coming lineup, to have fictional Vietnam '80.
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It’s interesting - to me, the exact historical authenticity is a nice to have but definitely not the highest priority.
Ideally to me there would be a selection of most of your typical terrains available across a few maps (desert, coastal, sea, snowy landscapes, jungle, mountains etc.) so you can create tactically different situations.
I’d like to have a jungle map so I can play and create SE Asia-scenarios, but I’m not super fussed where or what era the map is exactly. I’d like to have some kind of island invasion map but again, for me it could be Falklands or something else, as long as the terrain supports interesting gameplay. Somewhere in the mountainous ‘-stans’ would be cool but again, I don’t mind where exactly.
In my view, the ‘hot’ conflicts that ended up happening in real life are definitely interesting but it is easy enough for me to imagine jumping into a late 1970’s Vietnam conflict where things got a bit dragged out and the equipment was a bit more advanced…and that could have easily happened, that’s just a few political decisions and weapon deals gone differently.
To me what I’d consider much higher priority (and I know I digress from the map topic but I feel it is relevant) would be to make the maps / the environment feel more alive. I’m not a map maker, I don’t know how exactly to do that…but DCS feels quite ‘clinical’ and to me that is a lot bigger an issue than historical accuracy for immersion.
A Huey taking off from a muddy, gritty, run down base with shirtless GIs running around, deafening birdsong in the surrounding jungle. Sudden random mortar rounds kicking up dirt in the vicinity. Recon helos snaking along jungle rivers, avoiding small arms fire cracking from between the trees. Heat haze. Just like in Low Level Hell. I want to be able to easily imagine the weed smoke, the dogeared Playboy mags and hear the CCR play from a nearby shack, count how many more terrifying missions I have left until I get to go home.
Afghanistan. Sand gets into everything. UXOs everywhere, including right by the runways inside the base perimeter. Harrier pilot trying to help the distressed infantry team under the overcast weather while being constantly scared of running into the invisible mountains in the murk. The airmen are tired. I’m tired. The planes are tired. Just like in A Nightmare’s Prayer.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want gaming experience at the expense of simulation accuracy…but simulation systems functionality accuracy and historical accuracy are different things to me. It doesn’t matter to me if the Huey blades aren’t solid steel but composite or if a particular radar was really only installed 7 years later, or if Iran doesn’t actually have any working Tomcats left…I can live with all that. What I’d like is immersive environments that throw you inside the whole conflict zone rather than spawn you into a brand new jet in a postcard pretty backdrop.
It’s late and I’m tired so I hope this didn’t come across as aggressive, I think it’s a fascinating topic…just wanted to offer an alternative point of view.
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