Foothold - Persian Gulf

The “problem” with foothold is that its fast pace which makes it ideal for a fun evening with a few friends also gets in the way of the herc. You can of course fly it but in my experience you can take 2 bases using helicopters and fast jets while you sit on the ground and prepare the Hercules for flight. Helicopters are way too good at supplying airbases in foothold. Of course that is necessary in the absence of larger transport aircraft but now with the Hercules in the game it gets in the way of the Herc. If stuff like larger air defences and armour would require a Herc, suddenly it becomes interesting but as long as you can do the same thing using a Huey, flying 5-10min from the closest FOB, the Hercules feels a bit left out.

Where the Hercules shines is when you can plan out a mission and then execute it but that needs time and space which is not what foothold provides. I often spend a good 20-30min on the ground loading supplies, starting up the aircraft and then planning the route and mission (CARP, IPRA or whatever else I might want to do). Someone less practiced can easily take 60min or more to do the same.

Of course you can simply start the engines, load some cargo and go but then you leave out 90% of the stuff that makes the Hercules such a fantastic module and it’s still faster to do the same in a UH-1H, Mi-8 or CH-47.

A few years ago we build a campaign with a similar system as foothold, only much slower paced and with more restrictions on what helicopters can transport and airfields would only provide what we supplied ourselves — aircraft needed to be flown to the base, weapons and fuel delivered: you load 10 AMRAAMs → the airbase gets 10 AMRAAMs, nothing more — fuel would be provided if the active zone was at least one zone away from the captured airbase, not sure if he did that manually or whether it was scripted. You needed the C-130 mod to transport large quantities of fuel, air defences, armour, missiles and bombs, as well as supplies for large FOBs. The most helicopters could do on their own was transport troops, some rockets, a little fuel and establish a FARP, the Mi-8 could sling load Humvees and build a basic FOB. The campaign also had much larger zones to take than foothold and we had to stage forces for attacks. It was really cool. Of course nothing for quick action with a few friends like foothold but ideal for a squadron that can field 6-10 players on a regular basis. Zones also weren’t as rigourously locked like they are in foothold so you could take out supply hubs behind enemy lines to stop resupplies reaching the front which made taking the active zone easier. For example one evening we flew a deep strike about 150 nautical miles behind the front line to take out the largest enemy airbase which stopped most airstrikes on our frontline for a few nights.

Anyway, I tried flying the Hercules in foothold once but it felt a bit like a waste of time. By the time I had it started my buddies had taken two airfields and a heli base and the airfield I planned to supply was fully supplied even though it was still controlled by the enemy when I began mission planning. I switched to a different base but the planning I had done was for nothing.

All that is to say: for the flying I like to do in the Hercules foothold is not a good mission. It’s fun in a Viper, Helicopter or A-10C if you get aircover but for the Herc I want something slower paced with longer flight times.

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I think you raise a FANTASTIC point and I 100% agree.

It should be possible to configure the logistic system, based of expected modules.

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That would be ideal. Another thing I would like to see is that captured airbases don’t magically get hangars full of aircraft but maybe that’s just me.

Foothold is still a lot of fun, I don’t have to fly the Herc in foothold and I tend to avoid the closest airfields to the front line. Viper, Chinook, Apache, Phantom, Warthog are all aircraft that I enjoy flying in so the herc not having a unique task is not something that bothers me too much – I simply won’t fly it in foothold.

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100% truth.

What’s the schedule for the server today and does anyone have time to meet up this afternoon or evening?

I think the battle for Al Minhad will go down in some of the top memories I’ve had in flying online and simming in general. Not because it was the end all be all of battles..but I just haven’t really been flying online coop with FRIENDS in so long..it felt really good.

As you may recall..about 48 hours ago we took Al Minhad (yay)..and set our sights on Sharjah. Unfortunately, part-and-parcel with Sharjah was the Sharjah-Defence zone just north of it that would hassle us for two straight days.

Frog and I spent many hours on Thursday trying to soften it up. He was flying the Hornet and was doing his best to do strike and CAP at the same time. It’s funny because the “campaign” sometimes overwhelms you with enemy CAPs and strikes (with their escorts) and can sometimes go a bit eerily quiet. I know the mission scales on how many people are in the server..AND what type of equipment they are flying..but sometimes it feels randomized too.

@fearlessfrog slung HARMs toward the joint Sharjah/SAM area while I took LD-10 (HARM-ish) missiles. Every time we thought we were chipping away at it..an enemy reinforcement helicopter or convoy would come along and replenish the base. I don’t think they replenishments are super unfair..as I don’t think they repair or replace everything..it is more like a gradual repair over time.

MVP of the last 48 hours is split between Al-Minhad’s HAWK missile team and @jenrick for his awesome Apache skills.. :rofl:

While Frog and I were playing I eavesdropped on the enemy getting together some strike packages with CAP flights. Here some Su-25s were getting ready to launch with a MiG-21 escort…but what was funny was the airport (not sure which one) only had a single runway with no parallel taxiway..which AI had a problem with. The Su-25 back taxied and eventually took off..but the other planes in the package had to wait until each single one did that…

What I wouldn’t have given to be able to drop a bomb on these guys.. Fortunately..as they camd down south our Hawk team whooped up on them…

Frog put some big bombs down on the runways at Sharjah..one of the mission goals. Of course..Sharjah wasn’t putting up any aircraft..I guess all the anti-BLUE action was coming out of airfields further to the north…

Over and over and over again for 48 hours we’d make some gains and RED would try to repair..we gradually won out though..over time..and grinding… The RED CAP flights made it very difficult to get the Mi-8s..and by the time they got close to Sharjah the Sharjah MANPADs and leftover AA made it too dangerous to get close.

Ask me how I know that…

At one point Al-Minhad got beaten up pretty good (convoy?)..I think some good flying by @komemiute , @schurem , @TeTeT, @Derbysieger and @jenrick ended up saving the day…

Here we are running some re-supply into Al-Minhad. The strikes into the rear of our BLUE airbases and FARPs can be a huge distraction (as intended I’m sure) and allow the enemy to reinforce the zone we are targeting. It really was a back-and-forth for 48 hours…

I also learned that you can (somewhat) control the non-paid for BLUE CAP flights that are coming off the aircraft carrier. Select them on the F10 map and give them a new waypoint. This actually worked and they shot down some RED air..but they ended up exhibiting some wonky behavior after that..so I’m not sure how useful this is. Of course..they don’t cost anything..so free is good..

Finally..after hours..at about 2AM Eastern last night (:rofl:) @jenrick and @TeTeT and I finally beat back enough of the Sharjah SEAD site and the airport at Sharjah? You know what the game-changer was? I think this is what happened…earlier in the night I had fat-fingered the SUPPORT menu and accidentally ordered a JTAC Predator. So it put it on the menu as available but wasn’t activated. I was like..crap..I didn’t even intend to use it. I think (?) @jenrick spotted that in the menu and activated it over Sharjah. Brilliant!! Now he and I could just go into LSS mode with our pods with the same 1688 laser code and boom..boom..boom…target after target we were struggling to find. Finally we had cleaned everything out but the zone still hadn’t gone neutral. I asked for support smoke on the target and there was one big building on the airfield that needed to be bombed. A couple “thing on the thing” Mk-83s and it was done and done.

@jenrick and I raced back to Al-Minhad and swapped out attack aircraft/helos for support ones. We loaded up CH-47s with zone supplies. I think @TeTeT was still around then too perhaps. Of concern was a RED Mi-8 heading for the neutral field too. It was a race..!!

Fortunately we just squeaked in to the base about 90 seconds before the Mi-8. I unloaded..the base went BLUE…and the poor Mi-8 got blotted out of the sky by a Hawk battery..

@jenrick had a good point..his gunners might have been able to target the Mi-8..I hadn’t even thought about that..

Tired and ready to go to bed..I was about to sign off when I remembered my shot down pilot that I had lost over Sharjah hours before. He was just outside the base perimeter..so I went and picked him up. Glad I did..he was holding a ton of credits!

So this is how we were looking when I signed off last night. Sharjah and the SAM site taken down and supplied. For how long? Who knows…

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The server has been up..I just hit RESTART to reset the time on it. I have a soccer tournament with the boys all day today and tomorrow (Sat/Sun) so won’t be on until very late at night..like after 9PM probably. I’ll see about getting those mods you requested added. If I can do it before I get out the door today I will…

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I read your whole post @Derbysieger and have some thoughts on it..and agree completely. I’ll have to type them out later today though!

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I am looking forward to read that. Making the Herc more important is a double edged sword for sure. You will have to set up the AI to be able to run Hercules supply runs as well if that’s done so it’s way more work than it sounds at first.

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I spent an hour or so the other day figuring out the sight picture to air drop supplies by eye :wink: I do agree that the Herc has a lot of system’s depth you’re not really going to touch in Foothold at least with as short as our supply lines are currently.

I disagree about it being faster to run supplies with helos. The Herc has at least a 70 knot speed advantage on any helo in the game, and that’s at cruise power. Depending on how the logistics are handled that might be a game changer. One thing that might make it far more integral part of the system is to have zone supplies be deducted from anywhere other than the main warehouse. I had assumed you had to load zone supply crates from the warehouse in Al Dhafra, but that seems to not be the case. So for example Beach and I both took 3 zone supplies from Al Minhad, if the system downgraded the base each time we took a zone supply crate, we’d have either had to spread it out across a few basis, long hauled it from Al Dhafra, or only take 5 crates total and hoped red didn’t try to invade Al Minhad since we stripped it. A Herc from Al Dhafra has about the same time of flight from Al Dhafra with 4 zone supplies as a Chinhook from Al Minhad that is overweight and low of fuel taking 3, so with that kind of system change it would really benefit taking the Herc for it’s range and travel speed.

Helo’s are quicker to start up and you can even have much shorter routes taking of from helipads which mostly negates the speed advantage (especially noticeable on the Foothold CWG mission where there are a ton of helibases all over the map with flight times of maximum 5-10min in a chinook. If the mission wasn’t about hopping to the next airfield and the volume to supply an airfield would actually be so high that it would take a lot of helo’s then yeah I’d agree but that’s not how foothold works out of the box. It doesn’t help that each airfield has plenty of resources as soon as its got some basic supplies, so you can use it to quickly hop to the next airfield and take that etc etc

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Granted, I haven’t flown the Herc much to this point. Although, I’ve been impressed with what I’ve seen. Especially the checklist feature.

I’ve been flying a lot of Boeing aircraft lately, in both FS24 and XP12. I’m impressed with how well SimBrief reduces the time it takes to pull weather, airport information, pick routes, do performance calc, and get most of the OFP data loaded into the FMC, hugely cutting down on the non flying aspect of airline ops. I think that without SimBrief/Navigraph that I probably wouldn’t have the patience to stay engaged.

I’m not sure if there is enough interest to make doing that sort of operational efficiency commercially viable for DCS, but I have noticed an uptick in facilitating DCS logistics in missions and on servers lately. I suppose to some extent Combat Pilot was attempting to be something like a tactical SimBrief.

Good luck boys! Have already done volleyball and lacrosse dad Uber this morning :melting_face:

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AAR from last night on my end

  1. FLY ABOVE THE WIRES!!! - I think I’ve CFIT at least 5-6 times now. One of the changes from when I first got into the server to when we finished last night was my transit height. I haven’t spent really any time on the PG map in a rotary bird, and most of the other maps don’t have near the amount of electrical wires crisscrossing the AO. I started out flying around 50-75’ AGL, but by the end of the night I was doing 300-500’ to stay above all the wires until I knew I was in shooting range of the bad guys. That’s still low enough to get right down in the weeds if you get a missile launch or spike call.

  2. Standoff is your friend. I got knocked down once for running in while lobbing off radar hellfires (L’s), when I should have either popped a hover, or fire a few and break off to repeat. I got a lot better about firing off 2-3 missiles and then breaking to reset.

  3. Aircraft familiarity and study. The last two days have been literally the first time I’ve played DCS in MP. In SP I build my own missions and it caters to what I like to do, and I’m a rockets and guns guy (can’t wait for the Cobra), so a lot of the task flow and CPG integration isn’t something I’ve looked at since the Apache first came out. So there’s a bunch of stuff I need to get up to speed on. I need to do some studying to see where I can get range to target off of George’s targeting to better build my SA. I need to figure out how to use the LST in the Apache. I need to figure out if in using the FCR to populate the TSD, can I send targeting information out to BLUE in general or just other Apache’s. I need to get back into the front seat of the Apache offline. There were multiple times where I couldn’t get George to do what I wanted, which was lay waste with the gun. Being able to just drop into a hover or slow lateral move with me in the CPG seat raining down HEDP would have saved me at least 1 shoot down. I need to play with the new George menu a lot more. The new changes are cool, but things like the multi-engagement definitely weren’t working.

  4. Carry some dumb munitions later in the fight. 16 hellfires is great to knock down the dedicated air defense assets. At a certain point being able to just salvo 4 17lb’ers into a group of trucks would have been a lot more efficient with more standoff than the gun.

  5. Carry at least 1 rack of laser hellfires (K’s). I have no idea if a L can track an aircraft (see #3), but I know a K can take down a fast mover if you catch them at the right point. Having 1 or 2 spare K’s onboard for A2A work would help a lot with those pesky enemy Mi-8 supply flights.

Excellent find, being more aggressive using our AI assets would help alot, as it frees our limited number of players up from CAP.

The drone lasing things was a game changer for sure, we definitely need to remember that one. I couldn’t figure out the LST in the Apache, or how to just launch off a K in LOAL (see #3 reference my list of things to learn how to do) so in the end it was all Beech raining down APKWS. If I had realized my own incompetence I could have swapped over to a Kiowa with 2 pods of APKWS and we could have cycled through targets in a flash.

  1. Division of work. With only 2-3 people on it’s hard to have a dedicated CAP, SEAD, A2G, etc. Everyone has to do a bit of everything. With that said there were a few times where we ended up losing momentum or having to re-clear that dang SAM site AGAIN because we duplicated efforts and let supplies slip in. Voice comms would have been really helpful to coordinate on my end, flying an Apache in combat and typing are beyond me. In the future some sort of SOP on who handles what would probably prevent that issue.

  2. Swap aircraft as needed. I got sucked into flying Apache the whole time, mainly in the “if it’s working why fix it” mentality. However, once we got the SA-6 knocked down and it was MANPADs and AAA, going to something high and fast probably would have been smarter. Faster cycle times, better ordinance load for light targets, and a lot less risk of getting shot. A Harrier loaded up with Zuni’s or maybe 500lb’s would killed a lot of things in the time it took me to transit to the fight in the Apache.

I’m sure more will occur to me, but that’s it for the moment. Overall great fun, really enjoyed it! Probably be on tonight in the later evening CST (-6 zulu).

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That’s the thing, I enjoy the planning for a complex air drop or to fly an IPRA into a random field to supply a FOB. Foothold doesn’t really facilitate this kind of detailed mission planning as once you finished planning the mission has progressed one or two airfields further unless people intentionally stall progress to wait for the C-130J.

It’s okay, foothold is meant to be a pretty casual experience that’s quick to set up with easy mission objectives and progress and it’s good at that but it also means that an aircraft that offers the option for complex mission planning and execution isn’t the best aircraft for the job.

The coolest thing I have done in the hercules was a low altitude airdrop where we ingressed fast at 200ft, did a hard climb to 1000ft AGL at the SD point, dropped the cargo and immediately went low into the next valley while droppping flares and dodging AAA. I couldn’t have done it without a co-pilot though and the planning took about 30min. We were airborne after ~40min on the ground, ingress at low level was about 80 nautical miles, total route was a few 100 nautical miles. It was a roughly 2.5h mission including time on the ground.

I don’t expect foothold to be that indepth but I wouldn’t mind a version with more limited resources where you don’t provide some arbitrary “supplies” but actually provide fuel, weapons and maybe you even have to transfer jets to make them available. Maybe two jets for one transferred for gameplay purposes but not a fully stocked hangar once the airfield is supplied.

Of course this is my personal idea of a fun logistics system for the Herc, it’s something that foothold explicitly doesn’t proviude out of the box and that’s fine. As I said, flying fast jets or helicopters is what I like to do for a relaxed evening of foothold. Foothold logistics are simply too superficial for me to join in a Hercules because I have spend the last months with my head buried deep in the hercs systems and there’s no reason to employ any of the procedures in foothold beyond quickly packing some supplies flying to a drop point or airbase, then rinse repeat. There’s no precision required that justifies proper mission planning beyond go from A to B or even do a proper CARP run and since you don’t supply actual weapons, equipment and fuel but rather “supplies”, there’s no real need to use the Hercules, Helis can do the same just fine and are often more efficient at the task.

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Please, don’t worry about it. You have enough on your plate today.

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Would you accept to have a human learn to be George and fly with you?

Yessssss! So much this!

Sadly today I was otherwise busy with art, but I can’t wait to play MP DCS again. This was amazing.

If you’re around @chipwich I might jump on in about 45 mins? I could do the ‘NPC gives you a tour of theatre’ with a familiarization flight spiel :wink:

I can only work the Hornet or the Huey (and the latter as if the tail rotor is broken) but you can fly anything - I’ve don’t think we’ve had a same type flight since the mission started.

An epic report, thanks for writing it up.

“The battle of Helm’s Deep Al Minhad is over; the battle for Middle-earth UAE is about to begin..” :man_mage:

You know it would be nice to get ahead of all this red CAP. If there is a couple of us I wonder if we can do a sort of DEEP STRIKE (ALL CAPS) with SEAD and Mk84’s in one go - sort of get air dominance with something that skips over a couple of nodes North?

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