Harrier vs Skyhawk

In thinking out loud mode. Having just finished Harrier 809 and Harrier Boys V1, I’m all wound up with Harrier, and to some extent, Skyhawk fever. But with little prospect of DCS South Atlantic being released any time soon, I began wondering if the new Marianas map would be a viable option, especially if one squints hard enough, the palm trees might not be so obvious. OK, all of the sunshine and coral reefs might be hard to ignore, but just thinking about if these two aircraft would make a balanced scenario. Maybe if the Skyhawks had a 1.5:1 ratio. Heck, I don’t even know if they can carry an AIM9. No, they most certainly can not. I’m guessing that the M2000 would eat Harriers for breakfast, so that’s probably not a fair match. So perhaps A2G for the Skyhawks and defensive CAP for the Harriers.



In short, I like it!

As a model it should work but I’d assume two opposing CV groups, LHA/AV-8’s and Stennis/A-4’s, since there’s no major land base serving as Argentina? Then both sides would have a carrier to find/destroy. DCS needs more varied ships, among other things.

And I too am looking forward to the Malvina’s map. Some day.

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A small lake in Argentina has that name.


(Sry my phones camera is a potato)

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I really like it jross. Perhaps guns and dumb bombs only. If anyone has the chops to get this type of mission started, please feel free. I can give it a try, but I am much better at editing missions than creating them. Never to late to learn I suppose.

Maybe only give them magic missiles and force their afterburners off via advanced waypoint actions? Either in addition or as an alternative, you could also restrict them from jettisoning their tanks.

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Why not expand the scenario a bit and throw the Hornet off the carrier out there?

So, Mirages and Skyhawks vs Hornets and Harriers.

Or, restrict the fuel loads of the Mirages so that they can’t use AB endlessly, simulating a long ingress.

I don’t really know a ton about the M2000, but the Harrier is often under appreciated in ACM. That’s not to say that the design of the Harrier isn’t hamstrung a by its lack of AB and Radar, but it performs a bit better than most people expect if you fight it well.

Don’t get me wrong. It’s not going to outrate most late model fighters. But it can point its nose pretty well and regain its energy quickly. Also, because of what it does, it’s Mil power is actually fairly peppy.

And if the DCS Harrier had the Radar of the Plus, it would give something for the Mirage pilots to think about in the medium range game.

That is, if the USMC would buy 120s for it.

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That was my thinking. For A2A AV8’s early 'Winders only. A2G iron bombs. Since DCS is currently a hodge-podge of assets some imagination will be required for vessels and ground units. I assume the date restriction thingy works concerning ordnance loading (I haven’t really tested it).

Side A (LHA/AV-8’s)
Side B (whatever carrier works/A-4) Perhaps HB’s Forrestal will be sailing soon?

One (or more) of the islands start out occupied by B and A wants to remove them.

My only concern is that the map doesn’t appear to be optimized yet and those like myself that are VR-only won’t enjoy it. I haven’t flown over the smaller islands yet.


I’ll start something. Put my big toe in the water. At least some base mission. Likely only on a smaller island at first.

I assume multiplayer, so 8 slots per side, PVE - so that would be 2 miz files correct? One for Blue V AI and one for Red V AI? Cool, I just doubled the workload :thinking:


Thanks Deacon211. Perhaps down the road. Trying to keep it KISS while we build the basic scenario. The F-5E might be a good substitute for a Mirage. According to Ethell and Price’s Air War in the South Atlantic the AAF began the conflict with 16 Mirages, 26 Daggers, 76 Skyhawks, 9 Canberras, 5 Super Entendards, plus a mixture of 115 Pucarra, Paris, Turbo-Mentor, and Macchi light attack aircraft.

Yeah, fingers crossed for the Forrestal. I suppose it really doesn’t mater which carrier impersonates the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo as long as it’s a carrier that the Skyhawk can operate from.

Man, that would be fantastic to have your help. Perhaps Tinian and Saipan would be best, with a lightly defended Saipan, but very well defended Tinian. PGWT is supposed to be 8600 ft, and Marine Hornets operated out of there in 2012 according to Wikipedia. Again, just thinking out loud.

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Jack Nicholson Reaction GIF


Yes, but outnumbered by pissed-off Skyhawks 2 or 3 to one :smiley:


Not surprisingly, we are not the first ones to contemplate this scenario in DCS. Some already available resources.

A4-Q Cammo (80’s)

A-4(C) Brigada IV Falkland War Livery (Argentina)

A-4(B) Brigada V Falkland War Livery (Argentina)

HMS Hermes V2. mod Part 1

HMS Hermes V2. mod Part 2

Royal Navy 800 Squadron Sea Harrier FA2

Royal Navy 801 Squadron Sea Harrier FA2

Falklands War or Guerra de las Malvinas - 1982 - Version 8


Started one. Mostly to test FPS in the JumpJet and Scooter. Not much better but - it’s not stopping me! :slight_smile:

As I flew around what jumped out at me was a spot that might resemble the Brit troop/supply ships that got caught in the process of unloading (don’t have my Wiki handy).

I like the idea of nothing later than, say, 1985 for weapons. Still testing that functionality. Setting all CV’s to ‘quiet’ (no RADAR or TACAN, etc) for EMCOM. I’d imagine this was/is so. Was a little extra work finding the boat when I returned from the first test, with OVC wx as low as it would go - think the [very] odd? winter day in the central pacific. Imagination is key :slight_smile:

Be nice to have someone with more imagination and skills to do a quite simple ‘situational’ brief, then work from that to build it. But I guess that’s what this thread is…


First, thanks for giving that a go. Really appreciate it. What I can do is go back through the books and come up with some mission scenarios if that’s what you are looking for.

One that I remember specifically is that a pair of Harriers were holding CAP over some supply ships at 10K, because their radios couldn’t communicate with their controllers below that altitude. The flight lead spotted 4 Skyhawks coming in low altitude to attack the ships and dove on them, but the altitude was too great. The Skyhawks hit a boat before the Harriers could respond. But in the end, three Skyhawks were downed. One of the downed Skyhawk pilots survived and after the war, with his wife visited the pilot in London whom had shot him down. I’ll look for the details.


Testing the scooter with some AAF skins.


@chipwich - I have some things down:

  • Note again the lack of variety in units forces both sides to have similar platforms, such as Frigate’s. Don’t want any long range Tico-classes in there. I tested a suicide attack on a RED CV with Frig’s as a screen and they engaged me at what seemed a reasonable distance < 20 nm. Not much in the way of support and such (or whatever the Beans & Bullets ships are called - I was Air Force :confused: ) for the battle groups but maybe not necessary.

A creative story will be needed :slight_smile:

Red/Blue carrier battle group seem to be remaining in EMCOM mode - no emitting. Will need to write a script to get them to turn on when an opFor unit gets within a reasonable distance (ME only has the option for Unit Inside Moving Zone, not when any opFor does. I’ve written similar code recently so shouldn’t be a big deal.

Getting the FLAK units to fire when I want isn’t quite working. And they (KS-19 and -60 I believe it was) don’t seem to see very well until sun up - “shootin light” as it were. Makes sense if vis. guided but, well, I could see just fine?

Trying to disable runways: Right now I’m using the Poor Man’s Runway Denial method - a bunch of shipping containers strewn along the runway (with some smoke around to say, “Hey, maybe not a good place to land”. No problem for a skilled hover-jet pilot though!

Even the very simple first test was fun - low-level in the Harrier with a 6XMK8-n’s. The date restriction for weapons I’m not sure works. Have to do some research on what was available circa 1985 for the AV8. Pretty sure the AV8NA wasn’t around but, well, artistic license :slight_smile:

And I’ve forgotten 95% of what I knew about operating the Jump jet!

I had a thought though, FWIW - A4’s vs F5’s? The F5’s might be the land-based side, air-staring each time? I dunno. I still like the idea that you might either stumble upon the Opfor CV or attempt to reach out and schwack it, for both sides - the AV8 has short legs.


jross, did you have in mind creating a mission template that within reason, represent the combatants at the start of the war, then use this for either building a series of missions, or building a MP mission that could be played out to it’s conclusion? Perhaps we need to chat on discord? Don’t want to unreasonably load up your plate with this.

I don’t see that as an issue, since warships were often sold, sometimes to future adversaries, to accommodate prevailing defense budgets or political agendas. I’m far from an expert, but remember reading that the RN vessels had some antiaircraft missiles (Sea Dart)and countermeasures (chaff), not always performing according to the manufacturer’s brochure. Less sure about Argentina.

Yes, that is made doubly difficult because when the war broke out, the Harrier’s weapon and defensive systems were still in development. A lot of it was rushed into service at the onset of the conflict, and in many cases, it appears that the parties involved were making it up as they went. I’ve recently discovered the IWM ‘Sharkey’ Ward (801 Sqdn CO) interviews and they tell a somewhat candid and contrary account of that period. What is clear is that they acquired some AIM9Ls at the midnight hour, which allowed the relatively small number of Harriers (SHAR and GR.3) to take on a vastly superior in numbers Argentine Navy and Air Force. For the A2G mission, they had 1000lb and 500lb bombs, 2 inch rockets, and gun pods.

Testing an 801 Sqdn skin

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What about the Viggen as a mirage stand-in?
I know nothing about the Mirage, but this photo screams Viggen to me:

We could just squint a little and ignore the canards…


This one? Actually a short series of MP missions.

Next item is to see how many jets I can cram on the LHA.

Full disclosure: I’ve never built a MP mission (am aware of a few of the limitation however).

Just to confirm: we want PVE right? I assumed so therefore I don’t plan a lot of missions as I’d have to do them for both sides: BlueAI set and a RedAI set.

If I’m missing anything obvious please feel free to educate me.

I just finished the LUA to have each carrier group “come alive” whenever any plane gets near them - roughly simulate them in quiet mode yet still looking out. Range is adjustable (in the ME this is only doable with individual units which would get REALLY ugly to do in there). Should be straight-forward to expand it to allow for NOE flying (WAG some function that will reward low flying = they alert later). As is you can pick up the emissions from the CBG a long ways. Won’t put any more into this at the moment.