HP Reverb G2

Same here! I like the clarity and reading tiny labels but i got the wow when i got VR this is just a little upgrade! Still waiting better gpu to push it to its limits tough!


i think it was discussed already but…

have you seen this tweaks to WMR and StemVR

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/lncorg/whats_the_matter_with_the_g2_seriously/gnztlh8/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Yesterday in r/WindowsMR a WMR developer said that the only current way that the WMR for SteamVR plugin and SteamVR’s OpenVR API can interface is through copying the screen buffer. This can consume large amounts of memory because of the G2 panel 100% size , especially when (dynamically) oversampling. They have found a possible solution with sharing a screenbuffer both parties are working on.

This is a shortcoming of the OpenVR API, which despite its name is pretty much bound to Valve hardware and implementation, with support for other HMDs bolted on by plugins, instead of each manufacturer implementing the API as a driver.

The only structural solution is OpenXR, which all VR manufacturers including Valve are pushing. The huge difference in performance can already be seen when comparing games like MSFS and Revive with SteamVR vs OpenXR WMR native support.

For now the only things you can do about it is

  • Disable WMR 4 virtual desktop default in Registry
  • Start WMR
  • Set desktop res to 1080p 60 Hz when WMR is on
  • Move your steamvr.vrsettings file from the Steam program dir (only needed once) to a backup directory. This resets SteamVR settings to default, including hidden GPU profiling info. This is never cleared by reinstalling SteamVR. Also resets custom bindings, but if you can edit JSON you can merge app specific settings back into the new file which is created at start
  • Start SteamVR
  • Set Rendering Resolution to Custom:100% instead of Auto to disable dynamic supersampling. On 30x0 this worsens the problem even more because it scales up just by GPU power (2* increase over a 20x0), but disregards GPU memory size and bandwidth staying roughly the same.
  • Always leave OpenXR implementation on WMR, never set it to Steam’s implementation.
  • Restart SteamVR
  • Tweak per game settings from there

These all lower the amount of screen buffer copy, which get even higher by supersampling (RR auto).

PS i think it’s time to create a separate Mudspike Wiki thread Guide with all the Tips to configure properly a G2 (something like we had for the Odyssey)

@fearlessfrog @Troll @BeachAV8R i confide in you!

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Things that make me go, “hmmm”…
Note: I’m using an nVidia 1080 8GB and Odyssey Plus…

@EAF51_Jimmi thanks for that post! I’d mentioned earlier I tried OpenXR recently and saw little diff. However some of the steps in your post I wasn’t aware of. So, I went for it. Meaningless likely to anyone else (it’s all subjective) but there was a definite improvement.

My personal benchmark flight (Hornet, over Aleppo at ~15,000AGL, then a slicing/diving right turn to 500 kts at roof-top level over the city proper) saw a 10% improvement. I also spent more time above 75 FPS than I’ve seen before. Saw a lot more 90FPS numbers too. On the Supercarrier I never went below 50 were before it was 40-45 FPS. None of this is scientific of course but there’s something here, to me. And the scenario is simple with few objects to test the graphics more.

Hitting the VRAM limit has always seemed a significant border on my machine; using settings that keep it below 8.0GB (my max) was the the key. MSI Afterburner showed a decrease in VRAM usage from what I recall too. Wasn’t expecting that and not sure how valid my results are but, nice stuff!

This/these may be why?

The re-projection thing-a-ma-bob (whatever it’s called) didn’t seem to kick in (had it checked in OpenXR | Dev tab). Not sure about this one yet.

Thanks again!

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you are welcome and i’m happy but i just reported a post that i found elsewere!

i haven’t had the time to try this tips myself!

happy they work tough!! :blush::blush::blush:

Hmm a 9700K @ 4.8GHZ will not be good enough? Or just my video card is lacking… I figured at least the CPU is good enough but was willing to give it a go on my rig…

Troll, what rez are you running at with your Current setup?

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I’m sorry if that’s your take away from what I wrote.
The problem here is what is considered ”good enough” depends on the user.
The O+ has a resolution of 1440x1600, per eye. The G2 has 2160x2160. The difference is twice as many pixels in the G2. So, there will be a difference in performance. And, the G2 supersamples to correct a barrel projection distortion to get that extra clarity in the center.
I can run the G2 in its full resolution, but my FPS in DCS is about 20-30. Still, it is absolutely manageable. The experience in low FPS in the G2 is better than in the Rift S. But if I want to achieve 90 FPS in the G2 I need to lower the resolution down to about 30%, in Steam Vr, which is close to the resolution of the Rift S.
So the resolution you can run depends on what you consider to be acceptable framerates.

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I wonder if everything is ok with your set-up @Troll as that sounds a bit off? I think you run a 1080Ti, and I have a 2080 (not super, just plain) and had just recently ran DCS comfortably at 90 FPS with reprojection. My Steam settings on a Reverb G1 (same resolution as G2) are:

SteamVR beta 1.16.7 with ‘WMR for SteamVR’ beta 1.2.536
image

DCS bits. Pixel Density 1.0

Nvidia Driver 457.30 (that’s important, later ones stutter a bit with SteamVR), but nothing tweaked in the NV Control panel.

If I up the resolution some more, to say 150% to get it even clearer then I still have headroom to stay at a solid 90 FPS with reprojection (the target being 45 in-game).

I do have an i9 at 5.0GHz, so is that the only real difference? I thought you had a decent i7 already, so I’m not sure why we are seeing such different results? Anyway, wanted to say in-case any of this helped anyone.

I think people like to put on lots of MSAA, and I probably could (the GPU isn’t maxed out) but it then starts to hit into my ‘reprojection comfort budget’ when things get busy. That DCS screenshot was in a Hornet Caucaus free-flight mission, and things get worse if in the Channel map or lots of AI etc. AI especially cripples any CPU known to man.

EDIT: Ah, I’m running the VR shaders mod - that’s important, should have said. I basically plopped the first link in from here to the DCS folder and all set.

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I think maybe we use different nomenclature…?
45 FPS in game is what I would call 45 FPS. Sure, the reprojection serves 90 to the G2 displays, with associated reprojection artifacts, such as ghosting in high speed scenes.
When I say 20-30 FPS, that’s without reprojection at 100% SteamVR resolution, which is higher than the native 2160 (can’t remember the number).
I don’t use MSAA or shader mods and I’m on the latest Nvidia driver. Maybe I should try that again…

But just to be clear, do you think I’m wrong in suggesting that performance won’t be the same as in the O+?

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Wrong is a bit strong, and I wouldn’t say that - this is VR so everyone is always a little not right as it’s so insanely confusing and subjective. :slight_smile:

The O+ needs a decent amount of oversampling in DCS for things to be readable, so it’s usually at 150% anyway. It has the same sort of barrel distortion needed as the Reverb. (Incidentally, to be a maximum amount of confusing, a G1 at 148% in SteamVR is the same resolution as a G2 at 100%, so like for like that’s important between our two headsets)

I’ve found the bottleneck in DCS isn’t the GPU but more the CPU core0, so the performance difference in resolutions isn’t the thing that kills the framerate, it’s usually just the main DCS thread maxed out due to all the other gubbins it does in a single threaded way. For me it meant that going from an O+ to a Reverb didn’t really change the performance profile that much. I was oversampling the O+ so much to get it clear it was almost in the range of a Reverb G1 anyway. Some things on the GPU side don’t scale though, such as full-frame MSAA, and when you’re out of video memory - when that happens then resolution does kill framerate, but I just try to avoid it.

The trouble with 20-30 FPS is that it won’t use reprojection as it will only kick in if it gets in that magic range between 45-55 FPS to be able to ‘double up’. So frustratingly, if you have your settings to only get a solid 35 FPS in-game then you won’t be seeing 90 FPS ever, but if you squeeze out a bit more you will - so it’s sort of like a ‘gate’ for when the algorithm kicks in. The new OpenXR (used by MSFS only so far) has a special mode that targets 30 FPS (repeats same frame twice) or 45 FPS (the reprojection we have in DCS now), which is obviously very handy for simmers with bad framerates.

Do try the shader mod, I was surprised how much it helped and as I was away from DCS a bit didn’t really notice anything bad visual wise (ignorance is bliss!) :slight_smile:

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Oh, I know! I was just reporting what I get at 100% resolution (oversampling).
If I drop the SteamVR res down to 50%, I’m close to native G2 resolution and I have no problems reaching 45FPS and reprojection. But this isn’t what I call 90FPS. To me that’s 45FPS with reprojection. :slight_smile:

This is what I was suggesting by nomenclature. Those reprojected 90FPS aren’t free as there are associated graphical artifacts. I.e. when an aircraft whizzes past, reprojection will create ghosting and I see two aircraft in very close formation :wink: But still, this works better than the ASW of the Rift S. The ideal would be to feed the displays at 90FPS from DCS, without the need for reprojected frames.

When I used the Rift S I could maintain 80FPS in DCS and thus avoiding ASW. I didn’t increase the Pixel Density in DCS. So when I got the G2, performance became an issue. This is what I’m suggesting that will happen when going from an O+ to a G2 as well. I mean, is there PC hardware out there that will run DCS at 90FPS (in game, no reprojection) on a G2, at max graphics? I doubt it.

All said and done, I don’t regret ditching the Rift S for the G2. The clarity of the displays, audio and the high resolution is worth some reprojection artifacts…
But it makes me want a 3090, and an i9, and… :wink:

I will. Looks like it’s easier to install, these days… Don’t need to remove the old shaders, anymore? Just copy the entire bazar directory?

What about rolling back Nvidia drivers?
Is this still the way to do it?

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Yeah, it’s a shame about reprojection. The only other alternative is to switch to 60Hz mode in WMR and try to get DCS to a solid framerate for that. The 60Hz mode flickers a bit with very white screens (so if you switch it and go to the WMR ‘House’ it will look awful) but in-game DCS it isn’t terrible - definitely a ‘taste’ thing though.

Yep, just plop it in and it works - there is a long pause on start-up while it rebuilds the shader cache the first time. The DCS Repair can put it back to stock easily as well, or just make a copy of the Bazaar/shaders directory first.

Some people swear by DDU and removing stuff first, but I’ve always found recently that just downloading and installing an older driver seems to work fine. I guess it would be best to uninstall the current one, let it find the default Windows one and then add the new one. Driver I use here - Geforce Driver Results | NVIDIA

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Tried that. Not for me! :slight_smile:
Funny thing, this VR experience. Some are happy at low FPS or refresh rates or they can deal with reprojection artifacts, while others can’t…

BTW, did you try this?

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I saw it, and already do the virtual desktop screens registry fix - actually from last year here - HP Reverb G2 - #784 by fearlessfrog.

The rest of it about steamvr.vrsettings was about why to avoid SteamVR Auto scale resolution, and I sort of do that already, i.e. set a manual resolution per game. It all comes across as a bit as witchcrafty tbh, in that it conflates some potentially good news for the future (sharing the screenbuffer in future version of WMR for SteamVR games) and how to turn off the current SteamVR auto scaling (which we already knew would be a bit naïve to guess an ideal resolution).

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Ah! I see. Yes, I already do that too…

I can vouch for that one.

On my i7 6700K @ 4.5 I’m just not sure. To me the VRAM limit is where I notice things more. I’d love to say there will be a day when this is all simple. But, history has shown I’d be wrong, again.

The Windows 10 underlying task scheduler does something called ‘core hopping’ automatically (it came in about 1805 update) and it confuses people. What happens is an essentially single threaded app like DCS runs and rather than show a single core pegged at 100% (like it used to) it ‘hops’ it around cores so it keeps the temperatures a bit more even across the CPU area. It is still essentially locked to only being able to do one thing at a time, so if you have 16 cores, 1 is busy, another is doing some stuff with sound etc and the other 14 are running your virus checker and keeping windows happy. A lot of this is to do with how DX11 must keep thread affinity to a single core, and that’s what the noise about Vulkan and DX12 is - because you can manage that yourself and (potentially) write rendering engines that use more than a single core. It would take quite a bit of rework, and the XP11 guys have been at it for a while.

You’re right that it’s easy to hit a 8GB VRAM limit in VR for sure. The visible range being ‘Medium’ helps with that. Hopefully the changes they have planned with WMR and SteamVR will also help out on the O+/Reverb side of things.

EDIT: I have 8GB VRAM on the 2080, and you can see in that fpsVR shot, my CPU is doing not much (13% is probably generous), my GPU is sort of running ok, but my VRAM is high - especially as this is an empty mission. It would be nice to work those other cores when DCS gets busier/realistic, but it stays at that and then kills framerate.

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On the same machine I saw significant improvement in XP11 when they went all Vulkan on us. Was unusable in VR for me before, now it’s a joy. Still can’t max it out but, well, that’ll likely never happen. And I know that OpenGL was likely a bigger ‘anchor’ to haul than DX11.

Vulkan/DX12 seem to be the future if dev’s want the ability to get the most out of an engine.

Thanks for the info, appreciated.

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How does that fpsVR counter work? Do you have to have DCS on Steam, or does it work on the stand alone version?

FPS VR Works via Steam

Yes, but does it work with the standalone version of DCS, or do I need to have DCS on Steam, for fpsVR to work with DCS?

SteamVR works with DCS standalone, so I’m guessing fpsVR will too…?

If DCS is running through Steam VR, then FPSVR should work fine. Probably the best thing to remember is that it’s really cheap on Steam anyway, and that you have two hours to fiddle around and test it.

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