Seems like people really have different perceptions. I changed from O+ to G2. I didn’t get the whole new wonderful world feeling some others seem to experience.
I think I observed the same more clear center less so outer sight as Troll did. But seems I am more bothered by the inconsistency.
So it’s a meh for me, so far. I haven’t got my prescription lens insert yet. Not sure if that would help. I don’t feel like returning it either. The trouble of returning is enough to just balance it out.
So, only you yourself can decide. Like Fearless Frog said, try it out if you can.
I don’t even own a G2 but, yeah, I have the same impression.
Sounds good. I see them (the rings) all the time, at certain angles, in the O+ except during bright daylight lighting conditions. Seems they’ve [Reverb, et al] have improved the tech. My box of PC parts is slowly growing in the corner and hope to top it off with a G2 in the next few months.
I’m hip. Same setup, or close here: O+ and 1080 8GB on a 32GB RAM system. I’ve tweaked it as much as I dare (various benchmarks show me as well “above average” with this card). My plan was to “mow lawns”, so to speak, and over time acquire the gear. Hurts less that way. But, man!, did I pick the wrong time to DIY!
Next up is a motherboard; time to choose a CPU. Weeding through the hype (from Intel, AMD, nVidia, etc) is the hardest part.
Oh yeah, I’m in that boat with ya. Like I mentioned above, I picked a hullva time to quick drinkin, errr, build my own PC. As @taubkin mentions…
…I see very expensive GPUs (for my needs) being the norm for a while I still say they just need to put SATA and USB ports onto these GPU’s, with enough RAM to run Windows – and viola! – I have all I need. Hmm, sounds like a console gaming rig now that I spit that out.
That ponder-ment is what prompted me to ask the question; wondering if I’d see a huge difference from the O+ – if the ‘rings’ went away. When I get my pile of parts finally booting up I’m going to bump the O+ up to 2.0 (is at 1.5) just for grins and see what I get.
Ignoring the fact the O+ is likely the most uncomfortable headset ever invented (I’ve garage-modded it such that it’s fine now), the colors are good and the clarity is…okay. Likely I’m just used to it. It’s those darn ‘rings’ I mentioned that bug me the most. and that it has too much glare, I guess it is, in night scenes, making it unusable/uncomfortable on the eyes, under those conditions.
I am debating getting a G2 now and get another vid card when they come back to earth… I currently have a Intel 9700K @ 4.8GHZ and a 1080GTX. now they state it should run with this vid card…
Currently I have a Odyssey Plus and had it for near 2 years now and would like to get an upgrade and the G2 looks to be a winner for me… I am wondering if it will be a Big improvement over my O+…
I have an i7 8700K clocked at 5Ghz, 32 Gb RAM and a 1080TI, so not very different from your setup. I have never used the O+ but I had a Rift S and while I would like to have faster hardware to run the G2 in full resolution, I can always dial down the resolution to manageable levels and still enjoy the absence of screen door effect and the otherwise clear view. And, I can run at full resolution at low FPS, and still have a reasonably good VR experience. But you will probably want a new PC if you buy a G2.
Same here! I like the clarity and reading tiny labels but i got the wow when i got VR this is just a little upgrade! Still waiting better gpu to push it to its limits tough!
Yesterday in r/WindowsMR a WMR developer said that the only current way that the WMR for SteamVR plugin and SteamVR’s OpenVR API can interface is through copying the screen buffer. This can consume large amounts of memory because of the G2 panel 100% size , especially when (dynamically) oversampling. They have found a possible solution with sharing a screenbuffer both parties are working on.
This is a shortcoming of the OpenVR API, which despite its name is pretty much bound to Valve hardware and implementation, with support for other HMDs bolted on by plugins, instead of each manufacturer implementing the API as a driver.
The only structural solution is OpenXR, which all VR manufacturers including Valve are pushing. The huge difference in performance can already be seen when comparing games like MSFS and Revive with SteamVR vs OpenXR WMR native support.
Move your steamvr.vrsettings file from the Steam program dir (only needed once) to a backup directory. This resets SteamVR settings to default, including hidden GPU profiling info. This is never cleared by reinstalling SteamVR. Also resets custom bindings, but if you can edit JSON you can merge app specific settings back into the new file which is created at start
Start SteamVR
Set Rendering Resolution to Custom:100% instead of Auto to disable dynamic supersampling. On 30x0 this worsens the problem even more because it scales up just by GPU power (2* increase over a 20x0), but disregards GPU memory size and bandwidth staying roughly the same.
Always leave OpenXR implementation on WMR, never set it to Steam’s implementation.
Restart SteamVR
Tweak per game settings from there
These all lower the amount of screen buffer copy, which get even higher by supersampling (RR auto).
PS i think it’s time to create a separate Mudspike Wiki thread Guide with all the Tips to configure properly a G2 (something like we had for the Odyssey)
Things that make me go, “hmmm”…
Note: I’m using an nVidia 1080 8GB and Odyssey Plus…
@EAF51_Jimmi thanks for that post! I’d mentioned earlier I tried OpenXR recently and saw little diff. However some of the steps in your post I wasn’t aware of. So, I went for it. Meaningless likely to anyone else (it’s all subjective) but there was a definite improvement.
My personal benchmark flight (Hornet, over Aleppo at ~15,000AGL, then a slicing/diving right turn to 500 kts at roof-top level over the city proper) saw a 10% improvement. I also spent more time above 75 FPS than I’ve seen before. Saw a lot more 90FPS numbers too. On the Supercarrier I never went below 50 were before it was 40-45 FPS. None of this is scientific of course but there’s something here, to me. And the scenario is simple with few objects to test the graphics more.
Hitting the VRAM limit has always seemed a significant border on my machine; using settings that keep it below 8.0GB (my max) was the the key. MSI Afterburner showed a decrease in VRAM usage from what I recall too. Wasn’t expecting that and not sure how valid my results are but, nice stuff!
This/these may be why?
The re-projection thing-a-ma-bob (whatever it’s called) didn’t seem to kick in (had it checked in OpenXR | Dev tab). Not sure about this one yet.
Hmm a 9700K @ 4.8GHZ will not be good enough? Or just my video card is lacking… I figured at least the CPU is good enough but was willing to give it a go on my rig…
Troll, what rez are you running at with your Current setup?
I’m sorry if that’s your take away from what I wrote.
The problem here is what is considered ”good enough” depends on the user.
The O+ has a resolution of 1440x1600, per eye. The G2 has 2160x2160. The difference is twice as many pixels in the G2. So, there will be a difference in performance. And, the G2 supersamples to correct a barrel projection distortion to get that extra clarity in the center.
I can run the G2 in its full resolution, but my FPS in DCS is about 20-30. Still, it is absolutely manageable. The experience in low FPS in the G2 is better than in the Rift S. But if I want to achieve 90 FPS in the G2 I need to lower the resolution down to about 30%, in Steam Vr, which is close to the resolution of the Rift S.
So the resolution you can run depends on what you consider to be acceptable framerates.
I wonder if everything is ok with your set-up @Troll as that sounds a bit off? I think you run a 1080Ti, and I have a 2080 (not super, just plain) and had just recently ran DCS comfortably at 90 FPS with reprojection. My Steam settings on a Reverb G1 (same resolution as G2) are:
SteamVR beta 1.16.7 with ‘WMR for SteamVR’ beta 1.2.536
Nvidia Driver 457.30 (that’s important, later ones stutter a bit with SteamVR), but nothing tweaked in the NV Control panel.
If I up the resolution some more, to say 150% to get it even clearer then I still have headroom to stay at a solid 90 FPS with reprojection (the target being 45 in-game).
I do have an i9 at 5.0GHz, so is that the only real difference? I thought you had a decent i7 already, so I’m not sure why we are seeing such different results? Anyway, wanted to say in-case any of this helped anyone.
I think people like to put on lots of MSAA, and I probably could (the GPU isn’t maxed out) but it then starts to hit into my ‘reprojection comfort budget’ when things get busy. That DCS screenshot was in a Hornet Caucaus free-flight mission, and things get worse if in the Channel map or lots of AI etc. AI especially cripples any CPU known to man.
EDIT: Ah, I’m running the VR shaders mod - that’s important, should have said. I basically plopped the first link in from here to the DCS folder and all set.
I think maybe we use different nomenclature…?
45 FPS in game is what I would call 45 FPS. Sure, the reprojection serves 90 to the G2 displays, with associated reprojection artifacts, such as ghosting in high speed scenes.
When I say 20-30 FPS, that’s without reprojection at 100% SteamVR resolution, which is higher than the native 2160 (can’t remember the number).
I don’t use MSAA or shader mods and I’m on the latest Nvidia driver. Maybe I should try that again…
But just to be clear, do you think I’m wrong in suggesting that performance won’t be the same as in the O+?
Wrong is a bit strong, and I wouldn’t say that - this is VR so everyone is always a little not right as it’s so insanely confusing and subjective.
The O+ needs a decent amount of oversampling in DCS for things to be readable, so it’s usually at 150% anyway. It has the same sort of barrel distortion needed as the Reverb. (Incidentally, to be a maximum amount of confusing, a G1 at 148% in SteamVR is the same resolution as a G2 at 100%, so like for like that’s important between our two headsets)
I’ve found the bottleneck in DCS isn’t the GPU but more the CPU core0, so the performance difference in resolutions isn’t the thing that kills the framerate, it’s usually just the main DCS thread maxed out due to all the other gubbins it does in a single threaded way. For me it meant that going from an O+ to a Reverb didn’t really change the performance profile that much. I was oversampling the O+ so much to get it clear it was almost in the range of a Reverb G1 anyway. Some things on the GPU side don’t scale though, such as full-frame MSAA, and when you’re out of video memory - when that happens then resolution does kill framerate, but I just try to avoid it.
The trouble with 20-30 FPS is that it won’t use reprojection as it will only kick in if it gets in that magic range between 45-55 FPS to be able to ‘double up’. So frustratingly, if you have your settings to only get a solid 35 FPS in-game then you won’t be seeing 90 FPS ever, but if you squeeze out a bit more you will - so it’s sort of like a ‘gate’ for when the algorithm kicks in. The new OpenXR (used by MSFS only so far) has a special mode that targets 30 FPS (repeats same frame twice) or 45 FPS (the reprojection we have in DCS now), which is obviously very handy for simmers with bad framerates.
Do try the shader mod, I was surprised how much it helped and as I was away from DCS a bit didn’t really notice anything bad visual wise (ignorance is bliss!)
Oh, I know! I was just reporting what I get at 100% resolution (oversampling).
If I drop the SteamVR res down to 50%, I’m close to native G2 resolution and I have no problems reaching 45FPS and reprojection. But this isn’t what I call 90FPS. To me that’s 45FPS with reprojection.
This is what I was suggesting by nomenclature. Those reprojected 90FPS aren’t free as there are associated graphical artifacts. I.e. when an aircraft whizzes past, reprojection will create ghosting and I see two aircraft in very close formation But still, this works better than the ASW of the Rift S. The ideal would be to feed the displays at 90FPS from DCS, without the need for reprojected frames.
When I used the Rift S I could maintain 80FPS in DCS and thus avoiding ASW. I didn’t increase the Pixel Density in DCS. So when I got the G2, performance became an issue. This is what I’m suggesting that will happen when going from an O+ to a G2 as well. I mean, is there PC hardware out there that will run DCS at 90FPS (in game, no reprojection) on a G2, at max graphics? I doubt it.
All said and done, I don’t regret ditching the Rift S for the G2. The clarity of the displays, audio and the high resolution is worth some reprojection artifacts…
But it makes me want a 3090, and an i9, and…
I will. Looks like it’s easier to install, these days… Don’t need to remove the old shaders, anymore? Just copy the entire bazar directory?
Yeah, it’s a shame about reprojection. The only other alternative is to switch to 60Hz mode in WMR and try to get DCS to a solid framerate for that. The 60Hz mode flickers a bit with very white screens (so if you switch it and go to the WMR ‘House’ it will look awful) but in-game DCS it isn’t terrible - definitely a ‘taste’ thing though.
Yep, just plop it in and it works - there is a long pause on start-up while it rebuilds the shader cache the first time. The DCS Repair can put it back to stock easily as well, or just make a copy of the Bazaar/shaders directory first.
Some people swear by DDU and removing stuff first, but I’ve always found recently that just downloading and installing an older driver seems to work fine. I guess it would be best to uninstall the current one, let it find the default Windows one and then add the new one. Driver I use here - Geforce Driver Results | NVIDIA
Tried that. Not for me!
Funny thing, this VR experience. Some are happy at low FPS or refresh rates or they can deal with reprojection artifacts, while others can’t…
The rest of it about steamvr.vrsettings was about why to avoid SteamVR Auto scale resolution, and I sort of do that already, i.e. set a manual resolution per game. It all comes across as a bit as witchcrafty tbh, in that it conflates some potentially good news for the future (sharing the screenbuffer in future version of WMR for SteamVR games) and how to turn off the current SteamVR auto scaling (which we already knew would be a bit naïve to guess an ideal resolution).
I still say they just need to put SATA and USB ports onto these GPU’s, with enough RAM to run Windows – and viola! – I have all I need. Hmm, sounds like a console gaming rig now that I spit that out.
