I Hate Crafting!


There’s something called the ‘mid-game loop stretch’ and it’s usually just a way to spread the content out while providing a bit of micro-endorphin hit for collecting 5 wamp rat skins to make that backpack. I agree with @smokinhole that’s it’s overused. It started as more of a MMO tier spread-out thing, but has found its way into SP games. If a single player game needs you to retrace steps over the same area five times, it’s because they want to halt progression a bit before you finish stuff too soon.

Of course, the other side of the coin is that some people love the customization part, as it fits the role playing feelings, but that’s not really why a game designer would reach into their bag of tricks to slather it all over a design.



So that ■■■■■■■ never contributed to the building of the keep then did they! :joy:


I think @Fridge captured my mindset pretty closely. I loved Minecraft. I also totally enjoyed Subnautica. In that game, crafting is 80% of the gameplay. But it is a logical activity within that world rather than a secondary element that serves as filler.


Don’t forget the Far Cry nonsensical “kill this rare bear to make a larger wallet to hold $300 more” stuff.
You can hold 10 arrows. Want a larger quiver? You can ONLY do it if you kill this rare gator, no other materials could possibly suffice!!

That was FC3 and 4, they largely fixed it in 5.


I’d never be able to post another topic again


In fact he did!
He didn’t have a crafting profession but he still gathered some resources, and he did a lot of quests so he contributed by giving us quite an amount of gold.
So everything was fine. :slight_smile:


Yes you do, because the amount of money you could make selling those potions…

For some reason, the alchemy mechanics of ALL the Elder Scrolls games have always really appealed to me, much more so than enchanting/ weapons or armor making/ spell making. Plus, it got to be a LOT of fun coming up with ridiculously overpowered poisons and one-shotting vampires, werewolves, etc just because.


I came up with some combo poison that released over time. I could hit one of those Oblivion plane T-Rex monsters with an arrow. It would start running to attack me but fall dead before it got to me It was kind of like a game of chicken–see how close I could shoot one of those things without having to back up. :sunglasses:


That reminds of something I saw a guy in a TV show do.
A bad guy claimed there was something called the “20 feet rule” (edited. It was 20, not 12) or something, which was supposed to mean that if you have a knife and your opponent has his gun holstered, then you can kill him since nobody can draw a gun that quickly.

I am not 100% sure but I think he died trying it against the main protagonist who was just faster than most people.

…but I cannot remember the show’s name anymore…


Tueller drill, or the 21’ rule. I’m actually teaching a civic group on my agencies use of force policy in about 3 mins. I’ll come back and fill on details when I get home tonight.

The Tueller drill is named after Sgt. Dennis Tueller of the Salt Lake City Police Department. In 1983 he ran a series of experiments where an officer stood with a holstered (and unloaded) pistol, and another officer stood a distance away from the them. When the second officer charged the first officer, the first officer was to draw his unloaded pistol and pull the trigger. Aiming wasn’t really part of the testing, and honestly with distances involved, instinctive/point shooting is adequate. With the double action revolvers, and single retention holsters (normally thumb breaks) of the time, the distance that was found to be inside the normal officers ability to break a shot before the suspect reached the officer was 21 feet. In essence if a threat armed with a contact weapon of some kind, is inside of 21 feet, you are probably not going to be able to solve that problem with a pistol immediately. You need to add movement on your part, and unarmed techniques, to buy time to use your pistol effectively.

In the current time (we did testing on this when I was still full time range staff) the distance is about 35 feet. There are several factors for this. Holsters are much more secure, but slower. You can get on the trigger safely, sooner with a DA revolver if you know what you’re doing then a striker fired pistol (like almost all duty pistols tend to be these days). Also our police cadets may just run faster.

Ironically the takeaway a lot of officers had was 21’ feet is the danger zone, rather than figuring out what the reactionary gap in time would be. An officer who is fast, confident, and competent but slow reflexes may need 2.5 seconds, versus the officer with reflexes of an NHL goalie and only moderate pistol skills might need .8 seconds. If the suspect is a college level sprinter, the distance covered in 2.5 seconds versus .8 seconds is a major difference.

This is my professional field (LE use of force), so feel free to ask any questions, or shoot me a PM to keep this on topic.


Wow! Nice breakdown!
Of course now, all the questions I have are exactly those that came up in “Hot Fuzz!”


Cool explanation, thank you!

Thata probably the reason why policemen nowadays (ar least here in Germany) have their weapons drawn in some situations where they previously wouldn’t have drawn them. Although that has its downsides (mainly looking more aggresive and thus contributing to a possible escalation a bit more).

And I remembered the name of the show again, it was “Justified”. The bad guy with the knife always made sure to approach during harmless conversation within 20ft to be sure that he would make it.
I did not know that was based on actual research, that’s pretty cool.

And it seems German police knows that rule, too. Because it seems they are told that 10m (33ft) is the distance at which the decision of drawing the gun has to be made.

(And btw, that’s something that makes me cringe in movies. SO many situations in which the persons carrying guns get themselves in stupid situations by moving in far too close, both with holstered guns and guns in hand).

And to get back on topic (sorry for continued OT but that was very interesting):

I think crafting in Skyrim is pretty well done, just the right amount of grind and complexity.


Another game that I really like the crafting in is Kingdom Come: Deliverance. It feels pretty realistic in many aspects.


It was an episode of Criminal Minds (American title) - a long running series about the FBI’sBehavioral Science Unit.

For our non-US dwellers, Native American Lands have their own legal jurisdiction which now (nowadays) is strictly adhered to. In many ways they are semi-autonomous. The next higher authority is the US Federal government. They have their own police forces.

In general terms, the next step up in law enforcement is the FBI, hence the underlying theme for that particular Criminal Minds episode. In the episode, the Native American police officer didn’t cary a gun; he carried a knife…albeit a rather large knife.


Nope, I meant this guy, from “Justified”


OK…interesting…never heard of Justified. It was in a Criminal Minds episode too.


I kinda liked the show. It was about a US marshal in Kentucky.


Fun fact: the band that did the theme song, Gangstagrass, is on tour this spring/ summer:


I like their style. Combining HipHop (normally not my genre) with Bluegrass? Cool idea.


I’ll post some more in the music thread.