I May Have Made Some Christmas Purchase Mistakes

Fridge · January 4, 2024, 12:34pm

Before I learned (learnt?) that Microsoft was dropping WMR and I might need a new VR headset, I made some purchases on the WinWing store. Given that I still can’t seem to give up my VR experience for TrackIR, I feel that these purchases may be somewhat … unneeded?

I am going to shamelessly pull images from the WinWing store because I can’t really take better pictures.

First, I bought the F-15EX II throttle grips for my pre-existing Orio 2 throttle. I don’t have the F-15E module … yet … but I couldn’t resist the extra buttons and dials.

Then, because I didn’t have enough to bump my VR headset into when I lean forward to get a closer look at some dial or other, I bought the F-18C UFC/HUD combo to replace the CH Products MFP in the centre of my pit.

And, seeing as I was ‘losing’ my centre MFD buttons (my CH Products MFP is configured for centre MFD duty, plus buttons on the UFC to handle the number imputs, mode selections (the vertical and horizontal buttons that make an inverted T in the UFC)), I had to get an MFD (without display, because VR) to hang off the bottom of the UFC/HUD.

Giving me basically this, with the Thrustmaster MFDs in the left and right positions:

And then WinWing had to be amazing and release the F-16 ICP!

Which you can attach to the F-18C UFC with rails that let you rotate the panel over top of the UFC!

And since I had an order going, and it was Christmas, why not be a complete idiot and add in the PTO2 panel???

Cripes! I wonder about my sanity some times. Well, honestly, most times

Now, I think that I enjoy tinkering and re-configuring my flight setup more than I actually spend time in flight sims lately. And all of this impulsive flight sim setup comes from a long, convoluted line back to Falcon 4 - which I am starting to wish I had never discovered … not really

For a quick review, all of the panels are absolutely awesome … except for the PTO2.

The F-18C UFC/HUB controls are very well made, somewhat navigable with some mental training in VR. The F-16 ICP is amazing as well, though the mechanism to put in in front of the F-18C UFC puts it pretty dang close to me (I have the F-18C UFC/HUD mounted to my Virpil stick mount which puts it close enough to touch without having to reach forward, meaning that the ICP is really close). I am not sure that I would recommend having both - meaning that I would recommend either as they are both well built, sturdy and have a lot of functionality.

The MFD panel is amazing as well. It has all of the grey buttons, plus the separators between the buttons are also buttons. So, in addition to the 20 grey buttons around the edges, you get an additional 4 buttons per side, giving 9 per side or … does math quickly … 36 buttons? not counting the additional buttons for gain and such.

The F-15EX II throttle grips are great as well.

All of these are well built, solid, and feel like they will have a good, long life.

The PTO2 panel is … well, to be honest, it feels pretty cheap. The gear, hook and wing-fold toggles are nice but feel like I am going to break them if I ham-fist them at all. Like, maybe in VR these are not going to be as good as purely visual, with something like TrackIR. The ‘Select Jett’ button is soft as heck, which means that you can barely feel when it moves to, and hits, a different position. And the parking brake handle does not function as it is implied on the WinWing site: it acts as a 4 way hat switch where turning it left for right acts like a hat switch being pushed left or right, and you can pull or push it which acts like a hat switch being pushed forward or back.

I will post an updated picture of my flight setup when I get home today. I am pretty happy with it.

Troll · January 4, 2024, 1:50pm

No, Troll! You want a Viggen pit!
No, Troll! You want a Viggen pit!
No, Troll! You want a Viggen pit!
No, Troll! You want a Viggen pit!
No, Troll! You want a Viggen pit!
No, Troll! You want a Viggen pit!

And I always considered you to be the sanest person here…!

SierraAlphaMike · January 4, 2024, 2:50pm

I appreciate the comments on the PTO2 panel! I had been considering it, but wasn’t sold on having traditionally left and right hand cockpit controls consolidated on a single panel. I’ll likely go back to Plan A and make a small button box for wing fold and hook.

Phantom88 · January 4, 2024, 5:35pm

N I C E that is some seriosly Cool Kit!!!
I also appreciate your comment on The PTO2 Panel…It’s so strange how IMO some companies do some things so well while they fail at others…

I love WinWing’s Throttles and grips but they seem to have come up short on this panel.
Virpil’s stick bases.Throttles and button box’s are fantastic but I dislike The chear toy like feel of their stick grips.
Thrustmasters Throttles and stick grips feel very professional but their gimble system on their stick bases has been a issue forever.

Fridge · January 4, 2024, 5:46pm

I find WinWing equipment to be pretty good quality. They have the odd part (or parts in the case of the PTO2) that seems dubious … but then I am in VR and blindly waving my hands around my setup to run into the device that I am looking for. And all those bits that stick out, with cheaper plastic, well it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the amount (distance) that they stick out, makes them a little more susceptible to damage.

VKB and Virpil have awesome quality gear … but their time to market is somewhat slow. WinWing has an awesome variety of gear, at somewhat reasonable prices, with some concerns for some parts, but they are hitting the market fast and the quality is (usually) above good, if not great.

Thrustmaster just takes to long to do anything. And my opinion is that there is nothing that they are producing that others are not doing as good, or better, but faster.

jross · January 4, 2024, 10:10pm

I just got that one! FINALLY I have a stick to kur-thunk for the gear. Still getting use to it in VR…

And why would you?

As for the other acquisitions - I’m envious. When I got the PTO2 I thought about draggin my credit card through the entire WinWing site. For a second or two.

jenrick · January 5, 2024, 12:14am

Well an interview I listened to the other night, a F-111 in Desert Storm had to abort the first night after the pilot got a little “enthusiastic” and ripped the altitude set knob off the TFR panel. They may just be going for ultimate realism here.

Stormy801 · January 5, 2024, 3:58am

That is seriously cool. I’m curious how the F-18 kit works out, and if it’s stable or flimsy.

Brennus · January 5, 2024, 8:36pm

I feel that we are descending the same rabbit hole! I’ve also been >slowly< replacing all of my aging CH gear with WinWing stuff, including the aforementioned PTO2!

Harry_Bumcrack · January 6, 2024, 5:02am

Wow, I still have a Logitech G13 and had CH Pro pedals. I haven’t used the G13 for ages… but it still works!

You just can’t kill that old hardware can you?

This is my ‘simpit’ circa 2009!

BeachAV8R · January 6, 2024, 6:05am

I think he even gets to leave the premises once in awhile on day passes and stuff! Oh…to dream…

Troll · January 6, 2024, 7:42am

I wouldn’t be surprised if that stops now though…
Have we been a bad influence, you think…?
I don’t feel guilty, at all. But considering my diagnose, that’s probably not expected.

Fridge · January 6, 2024, 2:48pm

Here’s my current setup. I have absolutely nothing to complain about when it comes to having hardware available.

trevorr610 · January 6, 2024, 3:43pm

I replaced my CH Pedals with a Turtlebeach Velocity set because I got tired of waiting for them to break. They started to spike at one point but after a good deep clean were as good as new. I’m keeping them in the garage, just in case.

So far, I must admit I’m enjoying the Velocity pedals.

Brennus · February 8, 2024, 11:50pm

Fridge · February 8, 2024, 11:58pm

It has been, so far, good quality stuff. I am impressed.

Brennus · February 9, 2024, 12:44am

I received the Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals today! I can’t properly review them just yet, however, because I need to make a few adjustments to the setup before I can properly appreciate the upgrade! I ordered some Wheel Stoppers for my chair, as the tension from the provided spring is strong enough that I end up pushing the chair out from the desk after ~75% travel! I also picked up a pack of Non Slip Grip Socks, to hopefully give me better grip when I travel up from the pedals to the toe breaks! I’ll post a follow up after I spend more time with them!

jross · February 9, 2024, 12:58am

Have nearly the same kit, except for the throttle (and I have a small DSD button box for admin stuff).

The F-16EX stick I’m still getting used to: it’s a good stick but the throw is less than any I’ve had before…

while I’m thinking about that, hey, @Clutch - wasn’t it you that had the comment about the modeling of the DCS Viper vs FFB sticks?

The WW F-16EX (shown above) actually seems to be a good match for the [DCS] Viper. I mean, yeah, it moves more than the real Viper stick but the springs in it + the shorter throw seems like a good non-FFB match (may get something with a larger throw for, well, everything else). Must mount it firmly for sure.

komemiute · February 9, 2024, 7:48am

WinWing stuff just looks so damn appealing.
I am about to convince myself to get that Landing Gear panel stuff…

Brennus · February 10, 2024, 3:25pm

Just a quick follow up on the Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals !

It’s a clear hardware upgrade over the CH PRO PEDALS in which I’ve been using for ~20 years! I do have to make personal adjustments to work out the muscle memory I’ve developed using said pedals, but that’s to be expected! But, there’s a few things I’ve had to do to accommodate for the tension on the spring provided with the Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals !

The single spring offers way too much resistance at ~50% deflection, in which I would either push the entire unit forward (wood floors) or I would push myself and my chair out from the desk! So, I purchased a pack of rubber “No Lift” Wheel Stoppers, that I can slip under the wheels of the chair! That fixed the chair from moving, but now all of the force applied would absolutely move the unit from its position under the desk, even with the included rubber feet on the base of the unit!

As you can see in the pictures above, the unit was placed directly on the floor under the desk. I assumed that both the weight of the unit, and the included four rubber feet would be adequate enough to keep it in place! I was wrong! However, WINWING provides a rubber floor mat that you can place on the floor under the unit for added friction, in which I had initially (wrongfully) thought I wouldn’t need at first! Now, with both the Wheel Stoppers and the included rubber mat, neither the Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals or the chair moves an inch . . .

Until you reach full 100% deflection on the rudder axis!

The included spring is simply too much! I feel that mounting the unit to something (anything!) is the only reliable way to mitigate this! However, there’s a workaround to this problem in the SimAppPro software! You can set “Axis Travel Coordinates” for each respective axis, that doesn’t require calibration! I’ve currently set my “Axis Travel” on the rudder axis to 50%, which gives me full axis travel up to the point that the tension on the spring will start to push back! This is a temporary solution, until I can find a replacement spring, as this also increases (doubles!) the sensitivity on said axis!

I’ll post some updated pictures to showcase the adjustments I made later today!

I also purchased a pack of non slip socks, as I don’t wear shoes in the house, and especially not with expensive hardware! This helps to keep foot friction on the pedals when using the toe brakes!