Ironically I think it was an American community manager of IL-2 supporting Russia rather than the Russian devs, some LukeFF person? It was a couple of years back. I know @Navynuke99 had a bad time if I remember right.
There is some overlap between the US ‘My granddad got radicalized as a nazi’ fox news crowd and the whole Russian white supremacy stuff far right. It’s not surprising to see that in the overlap with flight sim fans and the whole military hobby stuff.
We went around in circles on the same subject in the DCS topics fwiw, and it comes down to personal choice. If you don’t like something then don’t do it - you don’t need people telling you that it is wrong or right, just what they would do personally. They only real influence you have is on how you spend your money, the rest is noise.
It seems like an easy thread to tug for some ‘just asking questions’ trolling here, now that politics gets talked about some more. Having mainly Russian dev places in this hobby kind of makes it inevitable even if we don’t like it.
I thought he lived in Monaco as a tax exile from the UK? He inherited a fortune and then moved away, but kept the fighter collection as a hobby or something (I don’t know, it’s unimportant, like rich people things)
Yep, that’s accurate. It was LukeFF who did that, basically forgetting to switch from the 1C Twitter account to his personal account before posting that reply.
But then 1C management lied and tried to claim they’d been hacked, then when presented with evidence proving otherwise, just went quiet. And Luke started banning accounts on the forum that were calling him out. Myself included, because we’ve known each other since the SimHQ days.
Could be. I remember reading that his dad lived in Switzerland and the TFC did too. Now that the son is running the show, maybe that has changed. Anyway, I guess he didn’t just point on a random country when he moved ED out of russia.
Then again, moving a software tech company doesn’t necessarily change where their employees live.
There sure are a lot of reasons to avoid dealing with several countries these days…
My personal take is that I now think milsim hobby software we have is sort of in the ‘why be a vegetarian argument sector’
People choose not to eat meat. They can tell others why they don’t and those that choose to can say stuff like ‘It makes no difference’ or ‘You’re changing nothing, the animals wouldn’t exist or will still die’. People feel strongly about it for fancy things like ethics and morality. I’m not sure anyone is swayed either way whatever is said or presented. You can say there’s no need to eat meat, while others can say ‘But I love it, so tasty - I would never give it up, just don’t show me the death bits’ - in that part of the deal is just to actively ignore anything ugly, as a way to just cope. The majority of the bell curve in the middle just want to get on and munch away and don’t want to hear from any ‘extremes’ - willful ignorance is the way to go.
There’s probably not going to be a solution soon. If every food recipe site post that features meat had a ‘we don’t support killing animals’ it would just dilute things being silly. It would be like us always talking about Russia or the US at every flight milsim post we did here.
As the real-life Overton Window shifted through the years we’ve all known each other here (“maybe Iran gets nuked tonight and I hope it doesn’t interrupt the hockey on tv etc”), it sort of exaggerates how people feel about buying from ED or 1C.
Reminds me of this vegan I dated for a while who now works in the alternative protein industry. Not any particular thing of substance about the topic at hand, just the mention of recipes calling for meat and using alternatives.
Oh! I guess to bring it back on topic, she wasn’t one of the THOSE vegans, and for the most part I try to be like that with regard to how people decide to spend their dollars. I provide information where relevant, but I do try (now) to leave it at that afterwards.
Some people feel killing animals for food is bad, while a couple of generations ago we held livestock for eating and got to live through the whole process of raising cattle to later slaughter them and eat. Not many people hunt for food these days, but those who do have a different understanding of the life that is taken, to give life to others. Most people in developed countries buy their meat at the store and keep it in the fridge until they are hungry. The industrialization of the meat market is perverted compared to our historical family farms where everybody learned how to slaughter pigs and cattle. Naturally people question this because they can’t understand it in the context of their grandparents or maybe great-grandparents.
I think it’s somewhat the same for us hobby soldiers, but in reverse. Most of us have no idea what war actually is like. If we did, maybe several of us would have another hobby..?
From the outside, people looking in may feel that we’re a strange bunch, playing war on a PC, but we justify it by calling it a game. And we don‘t like it when someone references a real, ongoing war. After all, we’re just gaming. I guess it comes down to each and everybodys personal references..?
On Korea, I wonder how well the ground attack roles will be done. On the subject of moving mud, I wonder how much variety there is. Attacking bridges, trains and supply (on the move)? Not sure how much close air support was done back in the day, Sidekick mentioned in his podcast on Iron Bombing that the USAF in particular unlearned all of the WWII lessons on ground support and re-learned it during the conflict.
Or is the game primarily more on the air to air campaigns, which might be quite interesting too.
Yep, it’s not a perfect analogy but fits where over time opinions will change perhaps and that it takes a while. If people had a great alternative today they would probably go for it just fine. If the haven’t and like it a lot then they won’t change and have lots of different reasons. Some will just even fundamentally disagree that anything is even wrong and should be changed - how can you even start to argue with that? Now am I talking about milsims from Russia or eating meat?
It was not and never really ever was about ‘War’ - that’s just generalizing it to avoid the issue. It was about Russia and the invasion of Ukraine and the aggression with that, plus how those individual companies act around that being Russian. The DCS and IL-2 issues being discussed aren’t just about people playing war.
No, I was generalizing because in general we play war as a game but don’t want it compared to a real war. Which is understandable. We don’t imagine killing people, we game.
Sure, the issue is that people are pissed at Russia and Russians because of the invasion of the Ukraine, just as people feel about the US in Venezuela and Iran. And they have every right to their opinion on these wars and how they should protest against them and make a difference. It’s just that generalizing an entire population of a country doesn’t feel right, to me. I know both russians and americans who don’t agree with their governments actions. Ergo, I can’t generalize and say russians are bad and I can’t say that for americans.
I don’t think anyone is asking you to judge the entire population of Russia @Troll. The strawman of ‘I can’t generalize and say russians are bad and I can’t say that for americans.’ wasn’t put up. I am also not claiming that populations 100% represent their government actions. It was more specifically about 1C and ED and what to do about those purchases. You keep going like ‘nothing feels pain’ level when we’re talking about a specific animal cruelty case.
You know some Russians and they are apparently nice people, cool. I know some Ukrainians that had family members killed in the needless war and are a bit ‘pissed’. I should go talk to them about generalizing about all Russians to see if it helps.
Anyway, around we go again and I apologize to others in the topic for going on too much. I’ll move on as I’ve had my say.
Well, there seems to be a claim about russians are bad. At least that’s how it started. I’m just trying to offset that notion a bit.
I’d want to know if it’s developed by people supporting the war in Ukraine, not if they’re russian, if you see what I mean?
I understand that and I feel that I have a hard time answering that question. It’s definitely not a simple yes/no answer. If they posted on their webpage that they support Putin and the War in The Ukraine, it would be a simple decision. But these companies operate in an environment where taking a stand or not can mean losing your business, freedom or even life, so they don’t say what they mean. Not officially anyway. And they are possibly divided within their own ranks as well, for all I know.
I have also met russians who are not… One of my buddies fell in love with and married a Ukrainian refugee, last year. It’s interesting to hear as many views as possible. I do appreciate yours, @fearlessfrog, but you are right that we shouldn’t bog up this thread more than necessary!
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter though. Makes me think and I need that.
Hopefully not, as that was a sideshow (in terms of the amount of actual engagements) compared to the ground attack campaign. Though, flying escort of a giant package of B-29’s, or attacking the same will definitely be spectacular.
After MiG Alley from Rowan, that sadly aged badly because have many issues to run well on modern pc even doing all classic tricks, the only korea air war flight sims are the il2 1946 with wwies korea airwar 1+2+3 payware mods and this il2 korea future sim.
Except the a Korea modern fantasy/hipotetical airwar that you can do with Falcon 4/BMS
Some 20 years ago there was a sim called Target Korea, by Targetware. Unfortunately it never made it to release, but I tried the beta and it showed a lot of potential.
