And that has been our philosophy here. Avoid stuff that gets us bogged down in moderating stuff…and if people can’t get along, there are plenty of other places where they can have their 100% free speech, with all the good and bad that accompanies that. Personally, if I don’t like a sim, or any product in life, I couldn’t fathom spending much time complaining about it beyond the initial “I want my money back” rant. There are so many good sims, modules, games, etc to play out there…and the older I get, the more I realize there isn’t an hour to waste in this world on serious negativity. I’m perfectly good at wasting my time in other ways.
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Especially if aliens or Area 51 are involved, as of late.
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its nothing against BMS, or Falcon 4 by itself.
but with any airframe like the F-16 thats represented by other sims, theres going to be comparisons and opinions, and they often take coversations and topics south very swiftly.
Same applies to FSX, P3D, and even SF2.
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i didnt know they had one…
anyway back on topic.
BMS still wouldnt be a good idea to prep for DCS for a few reasons.
-Despite looks and feel, the systems are not modelled to the detail DCS will be, alot of procedures are different
-Despite feel, the Flight Models will also be different.
-BMS models several blocks, what might be present in a BMS representation might not be present in the DCS Viper.
-BMS looks and feels like a different sim, because it is, AI behavior, AND Physics: Weapons Physics, World Physics, Radar Behavior, everything.
I cannot wait for a bug report to say its wrong because this is how it works in BMS.
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Since there’s so much open documentation on the FLCS and wind tunnel data, I doubt that ED could do much better than BMS. The end results should be very similar.
To be fair, considering the entire package, it cuts both ways. There’s a few areas that DCS would have to catch up in as well.
Sorry meant to add “And Vice Versa” at the end of each note.
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Please let’s not talk about other forums. They do their thing. We do ours.
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Sorry Beach, My mistake
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I think it’s worth noting that the forum in question isn’t really a general flight sim forum, and they’ve recently added some other rules that make it difficult to discuss the subject matter in question. They have reasons for doing so, and in today’s geopolitical world I can’t blame them given where their personnel operate from. I don’t fully agree with most/all of the decisions they make, but it’s not my house either.
As I said earlier, simulation fans can be a very contentious bunch. The nitpicking of details and rivet counting is absolute hell to deal with from a developer standpoint, especially when the subject matter can be quite murky due to lack of open source data, assuming it hasn’t been lost or destroyed. More often than not, people can get riled up over something that they feel is wrong or done improperly for X reason, then get angry when the developer comes back and says they did it for Y reasons. “That’s not realistic!” the simulation fan will scream, then shout, then stomp, then whine when they can’t have their way. It’s the same behavior one might see from other game genres, just with a number of self-proclaimed experts cherry picking real world data to justify their complaints.
A number of folks, me included, wish that we could return to a lot of the great sims of the 90s, the feeling of immersion we had despite the primitive visual levels and fidelity of the time. Somewhere along the line, it was decided that the game part needed to be sacrificed for the sake of fidelity, and that resulted in the modern simulation culture of nit picking rivets when the subject matter still remains a game. It’s no surprise to me that few developers want to dip their toes in that water with such a demanding audience.
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I’m with you. The 90s was like the golden age of sims. I feel like there was something for everyone.
I enjoy immersion without the need for 24/7 hardcore realism. It amazes me how some folk will criticize a sim because it does not hit the numbers or try insane outside-the-envelope maneuvers to prove that a flight model is “broken.”
It will be interesting to see where the new MicroProse will fit in this modern day arena and how the tribes will respond.
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If they can go back and grab that immersion – the interface, the management, the gameplay – they’ll be well on their way. Just getting as close as we did with the Apache project for ArmA2 would be good enough for me.
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No problem man. I know you are sad about it too. It is what it is at this point.
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I think for many with thousands of hours into a product, they feel they have a large degree of authority on the subject (and if all we’re doing is comparing different products I’d agree). For many this may be the only area where they are an authority (if even in their own head), and they defend this feeling with a ferociousness that is far out of proportion to the subject at hand. I think one of the things we do well here at MS is that, while we are passionate about sim’ing, peoples real life experiences and interests keep the level of “invested’ness” down to workable levels.
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It also helps that we’re fairly intolerant of negativity in here. Our threads rarely if ever devolve into whiny slagfests.
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When I joined mudspike I made it quite clear that this was my first foray back into the world of the internet. I have no other internet presence. I watched you all for a while before making the decision to join up and participate here. We all have similar interests and outlooks in life I think. Now I’m pretty settled here I have looked around a bit more and thought to myself on more than a few occasions that maybe mudspike is actually not that different from other sites and i should get involved with the world and make more friends and expand a little.
Then I read other similar forums posts and I realise that THIS PLACE IS SPECIAL. The people here are different. I don’t need confrontation and arguments. I LIKE hearing differing opinions not arguing about them. I enjoy hearing about your lives and what you guys are up to. I’ve found real lasting friends here in my view. I didn’t even manage that on Facebook years ago with people actually knew! Mudspike is special to me. It means a lot to me coming here and talking and discussing things that interest me and connecting with nice friendly mature people. This place is the best. We aren’t like other places and that makes it special.
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If the internet is a farm which grows a mixed crop of all the worst aspects of humanity, forums are the fertilizer. This one is a very rare exception.
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As a new member, I have to admit this is a wonderful forum filled with passion and information. I have spent some time reading and enjoying what I find here. There seems to be wealth enjoyment minus the ego idiocy. Most refreshing and makes the site viable and relevant !
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Actually, I feel that I have 100% free speech here at Mudspike…OK maybe more like 90%.
That is because I understand that with a liberty comes a responsibility. In this case the liberty to express my opinions about whatever subject–perhaps “the tendency of a Viggen to enter an approach turn stall…no really it is not my faul!t”–comes with the responsibility to do it in a respectful and thoughtful manner.
Yes, there are the forum rules to follow but, IMHO that does not limit my freedom of speech as much as it does keeping us on track with the focus of the forums and threads.
I like this forum. 
That said…
I agree with your points, however, I think it might be a good systems trainer. Things like the start up check list, navigation and various weapons employment “buttonology” should be the same…or at least very similar…just a thought. 
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It is SO your fault!!
But you’re on my good guy list anyway…
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At the Pre pay release baring the many things missing and bugs and after mapping the controls and maybe changing the axis I expect to be able to start, TO and land (and probably do the implemented weapons) by just following the BMS checklists.
Looking at the academic video the cockpit is exactly the same as the B50 CCIP in BMS so some of the knobs will move differently and some might go the other way but will be interesting to see if I can get away with not reading the DCS stuff.
I think any newcomer single players who learn in DCS via the interactive training might try BMS as well especially if they found it too daunting in the past.