MSFS - Add-ons and Releases thread

Perhaps you shouldn’t assume that your view on reality is the same as everybody elses?

How can can console users lack the taste for complex aircraft and sims, if they haven’t tried them…?

I wonder how many copies of the Xbox version of MSFS that has been sold. It is definitely the most advanced flight simulator ever available on a console. Maybe the reality, as you know it, is changing…?

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As so that why we never so soon we have an NHL game on PC and why not so soon we will not have a DCS world on xbox. Not because the brain capacity, but because usual common consoles market tastes.
The xbox msfs there is more of a technology proof of concept and curiosity that gets boring fast for many xbox users.

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It’s very hard for us grizzled old veteran simmers, who have spent literally thousands over the years on the hobby to get our heads around the fact that you can now play our hallowed simulation software on an X-box console that costs far less than our graphics cards (let alone the rest of our PC’s and equipment).

I think we forget sometimes where we came from. In my case an 8bit home computer with a micro switch joystick (not analog)… the whole setup probably didn’t cost more than $600 in today’s money.

You don’t generally start this hobby with a $3000 PC and high end controllers…you tend to get slowly sucked in, and an X-Box is the perfect way for new blood to start out. Us old hands are, quite literally, a dying breed. The hobby needs new blood and the X-Box is a great way to make the sim accessible to those who might never try it if you need a fancy PC and equipment.

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I agree, it requires new blood, but at the same time i see popular xbox games reviewers bombing msfs there as the most boring game xbox ever had…
For me i like msfs and it can be even on an iphone to fly a bit when outside :smiley: but its sad to see it bombed with bad reviews of boring by the xbox community that only play shooters/racing/sports games that is the biggest market there.

Many msfs xbox users only have it because its on the gamepass for “free”…

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Flight sims will always be a bit of a niche, regardless of the platform. It’s just not everyone’s cup of tea. Personally I am not much into sports games…others like them though :wink: .

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I get your point of view @stavka - I guess I view it more as an opportunity than a threat, to use the old SWOT matrix.

The full fidelity makers want to get paid to make super accurate modules.

Before MSFS Xbox, their only serious target market was the hardcore simmer market - people who are prepared to sit down with a real life POH book they bought separately from the internet and learn that particular aircraft.

This limits the potential purchasers (in particular repeat customers) to actual pilots with an interest in simming and non-pilot aviation enthusiasts with years of experience in the hobby. I don’t know how many copies of a module you sell - but call it 100k for conversation’s sake.

Enter Xbox. Your business still has those 100k customers with their multi-thousand dollar home sim setups. But - now you also have the option to consider how to get some of the less hardcore people out there to buy your product.

How do you do that? Make the modules more approachable. Spend time and money polishing the experience. In-built step-by-step guides, well-designed manuals, a linear campaign with goals that takes you from not knowing a thing to being able to complete an IFR flight.

Also (and this is what I’m hoping will benefit us too), give people something to do in the sim rather than considering the job to be done once every system is modelled. Normal games have campaigns and storylines, it’s not hard to do.

Why would you bother? The customer base is orders of magnitude larger than 100k. It’s in the millions. You can have a whole team separate from the technical rivet counter team to create the introduction pathway layer and the sense of purpose layer.

Of course, your argument is to take the leap two steps over here and say, why would we spend all that time making the full fidelity module at all when we could just go light and approachable and make more money? It’s logical, but it would also mean changing your entire premium fidelity philosophy and company mission statement. I just don’t see it as a risk.

There’s a market for full fidelity sims and with the introduction of MSFS Xbox, there’s now an incredibly powerful channel to massively grow that market. I’m very much in the “the more the merrier” camp.

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There are several very positive reviews out on MSFS for Xbox. The user review score on metacritic is even higher for the Xbox version, compared to the PC version. Granted there is 3 times more PC reviews, but it has also been out longer for PC.
So, I don’t agree with your view in this, but that’s ok. I don’t have monopoly on reality. :wink:

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So what you’re saying is that you wouldn’t accidently spend $70 on the new NHL 22 and then leave a review that said ‘Terrible game - I fell over a lot and the field was too icy, WTF!’, but that you also don’t mind that it exists for others that want to try it because they have an interest in hockey?

No-one is accidently buying the PMDG DC-6 on Xbox. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people that do buy it already have a PC but can’t get the latest PC upgrade bits.

As for review bombs, they just released the ‘Game of the Year’ edition, in celebration of the reviews.

I can see @stavka’s point on sim companies suddenly realizing there is a buck to be made on bad add-ons though. There’s a few in the marketplace that are awful and very low in quality. That’s not a good trend.

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Yes exactly, i not have a fear of msfs or the hobby. And not specifically about PMDG, they do what they want. What is sad is seeing what many times happens that some products start to be bad quality because even low quality and low prices you earn more than high prices and high quality. I saw that happened with some addon companies that after realized that their product not sell well, they released a more cheap and worst lite version…If later that light version get more money than the full one, why bother with the costy ones. Many times we forget that these companies are not here for the love of the hobby, they are here because profit, its why PMDG DC-6 for xp11 was never released… These happens specially in the very big companies!!!

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“New blood”, “old blood”; “console”, “PC”. They’re just labels. I’ll repeat myself and apologize for doing so but I am in all four categories. A good many flight sim fans are just like me. At 53 years old and not having yet purchased MSFS, I am old. I am waiting to get my hands on an Xbox Series X. That will be my MSFS machine because my plan is to use it as a quick fix sim, a place to relax between more stressful sessions on the console. The xbox (unlike my PC and CERTAINLY unlike my PC in VR) allows me to play without the isolation. I promise that I don’t get one synapse smarter when I leave the couch to go upstairs and play DCS. The great thing about Mudspike is that it is populated by good-natured non-snobs. Let’s keep it that way.

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PC flight sim users are more picky than xbox users that like flight sims and not fly on pc. PC users compare msfs with p3d, xp11, … and also they suffered the beta testing bugs, bad pc’s performance etc etc etc, its why is normal bad reviews on PC is bigger than in xbox. But its much more easy you find a PC user that likes msfs than a xbox only user that will like msfs.

What is a big annoying is that people miss interpretation that i told that xbox user is less smart than pc user. I NEVER told that! what i told and repeat is about tastes and what they prefer and like more. stupid, dumb, smart, expert, whatever people exist everywhere. Not to mention that exist
many people that have both (pc and consoles, including me).

What I told and repeat and detailed is that a common xbox classic user (usually the guys that only play on consoles and never/rarelly play on pc, some not even have it) not like civil flight sims! If it not shoot missiles or deliver bombs is boring… As such that if they really liked they already got a pc and played there even with a old pc in a old flight sim.

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infact i like that they released msfs on xbox, more profit is more companies stability, and not think that soon or later because sell few copies we need to close it, as ms did with fs flight, etc… What i hope is not see a reflection that from some dev companies see that is better to do light aircraft than complex ones because the market prefer the light ones.

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That may have been true, to a certain extent, in the past.
But I think we are seeing a paradigm shift in flightsimming.
What we know to be true in the past, may not represent the reality of tomorrow.
We will see, won’t we? :slight_smile:

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The Xbox user is every bit as aware of what he/she is buying as the PC user is. Both have equally valid expectations that whatever they purchase through the official storefront will work.

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Its true and i not told the contrary.

Well, I’m sorry if I miss interpreted you writing

Because in IT this is used to describe a user who doesn’t know what they are doing.

So you may not have meant that console users are dumb, but it sure looked like you did. But this is a big problem with written communication and meanings that get lost in translation.

It is annoying, but it happens to most of us. Been there, done that! :wink:

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I agree specially because my main language is not english.

Being the problem in IT issue it not means that the guy is dumb or stupid it means that the problem is not on the product/software or hardware! The problem in on the user side. Many time because he don’t knows how to use or did a mistake. That is easily happens if you get/try to use the DC6 without reading the manual or study it previously. You go to try it fly on the first second after download it and after go to the forum saying that something not works because its a bug… that sadly happens whatever platform you use (xbox, pc, ps, wii, shift, …)

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I understand that argument and that’s certainly valid for a portion of the user population - three points, though:

1 - people’s interests are dynamic, not static. I used to be DCS only, now I’m loving the civilian side and it’s challenges too.

2 - you don’t know what you don’t know. Your brain might be wired perfectly to learn and enjoy sims but you don’t know it - the Xbox platform allows people to dip their toes in to find out

3 - as @smokinhole said, we have to remember that we’re labelling stereotypes here, the reality is that there’s a huge pool of xbox users out there each with an individual set of circumstances, desires, preferences and abilities…and the pool is so huge that you only need to properly capture a tiny percentage of it to double the flight sim market size.

Your concern about dumbing down and reducing quality is valid, I acknowledge that. I guess we will just have to see and vote with our wallets.

My (glass half full) belief is that once you’re interested in flight sims, being able to operate a full fidelity aircraft becomes the goal (that’s what happened to me) so the demand for high quality premium modules is there and will grow together with the overall number of simmers.

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Its true and as such that i was super happy to see that some companies started to develop really cool yokes and throttle quadrant systems to xbox because msfs there. That is a pleasure to see!

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