MSI Trident X (impressions thread)

The interesting thing about the move to Vulkan, away from OpenGL or DX11 is that Vulkan doesn’t really help in the multi-threading, it is more just that it is a lower lever API that makes you manage it on the client API side yourself. Things like DX11 have a rendering pipeline where you can give quite high level instructions to make up the scene, but then have no choice but to push everything from that single thread/core through that single pipeline.

Vulkan has the ability to issue simpler instructions, but more of them, to the extent you can do this across cores if you need to - provided you manage the synch state yourself. The devs behind DCS and X-Plane are great, in that they aren’t using 3rd party rendering engines but their own, so probably know how to eek out a lot of gains on their tech. Once they get to Vulkan then they can profile it, looks for gains and then have the option to move stuff around or refactor it - with DX11 or OpenGL there was never really that option. Put another way, I think that just the rendering pipeline alone could be a big performance benefit for DCS, even if they still use a main game loop on the single thread (apart from the sound, which is fed to a second thread at the moment).

@BeachAV8R - got any of them XP11 benchmarks next (after Mother’s Day perhaps?) :slight_smile: Really curious how XP11 is on that PC, as I am happy enough with DCS but X-Plane is a whole hog on its own, especially in VR.

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Definitely will start on that tomorrow. And P3D this week as well… :+1:t2:

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Did some X-Plane 11 testing today.

First a couple things - these pictures were taken through the lens of my O+ with an iPhone 6+…they are not fantastic, I was hurrying along pretty quickly. I have a lot of light behind me from windows and doors which resulted in quite a few stray light ray artifacts, and the dark stripes you might see are from the refresh rate of the headset and iPhone rolling shutter effect. It is really hard to get the lens of the iPhone in close enough to the lens of the O+ to properly get both the sweet spot and full FOV, so these images are quite a bit blurrier in all aspects. As well, I have custom prescription inserts that I’m not bothering to take in and out for this process, so keep in mind you are looking through a prescription lens, so I’m guessing that distorts things slightly. And finally, the original images are around 6MB each, but these are all resized and reduced in quality to get them down in the 1.2MB area each just for bandwidth purposes.

Tl;dr that part - these images don’t really showcase well the clarity, FOV, and picture quality of the real thing.

I started out with the default X-Plane MD82. The reason for this is that it is a fairly complex aircraft with not so simple graphics, but it is VR ready and made by Laminar, so one would think it should be pretty VR compliant and optimized. I personally love this airplane and think it is probably one of the best “free” aircraft included with X-Plane.

I’ve also set the situation to Salt Lake City, for which I have a fairly complex payware scenery add-on by ShortFinal, which is the payware product of MisterX. It is awesome scenery and I highly recommend it. I wanted something that would tax the system beyond the default scenery. Weather is set to realistic and I run SkyMaxx Pro 4 and Real Weather connector. The real weather today was just some high scattered cumulus, so not very hard on graphics.

Settings were set to VR friendly mid-levels. Visual Effects and Number of World Objects probably have the greatest effect on X-Plane performance. Anything over Medium for Visual Effects turns on HDR, which tanks FPS in X-Plane. Anti-aliasing was 16x, World Objects medium, and reflection detail medium. These values present a very nice VR world. Steam was set to 200% global super-sampling (SS). In doing some exploring today I learned that Steam VR settings were set to automatic, and that setting automatically gives me 200% based on my GPU (2080Ti).

Performance with these settings was very good. In my tests, I found that anything better than 30 FPS was very, very smooth. 20-25 was OK, and once you get down around 18, it would not be a good VR experience in my opinion. I think the reason these settings feel fine at such relatively low FPS when we see 45 and 90 held out as the standard is that not much is happening very fast in X-Plane. If this were a combat sim, perhaps the roll rates would cause discomfort at lower FPS, but that is just not the case in X-Plane.

37-ish FPS:

I flew around for quite a while at those previous settings, doing some patterns and landings at KSLC and loved every second of it. Cockpit clarity is good, FPS is good, everything is very smooth.

Next I ran the sliders up to their maximums - Visual Effects went full right which turns on HDR and SSAO (or something), World Objects went to max, and reflection detail. As expected, the combination of HDR and object density sent FPS down to 18. This was not playable, and really doesn’t even look better. Sort of similar to DCS World in that the very highest settings, at least in VR, sometimes make the picture look worse than better.

Just moving the Visual Effects slider and leaving the objects at max still results in a boost, giving 30FPS, very playable and smooth, and providing a great overall experience.

Retaining the VR type medium settings, I then loaded a less complex aircraft (the default C-172) and found FPS to remain the same-ish…at least with default planes the complexity didn’t seem to factor into any kind of performance difference. It is interesting to see just how much GPU X-Plane uses, while CPU is still down around 11%…

Again, for comparison purposes, I wanted to see what a non-complex scenery area would do, so I kept the same graphics settings and moved to Jacksons Int’l, Papua New Guinea and observed an increase of maybe 7 or 8 FPS with far less complex scenery.

Next I went to a very dense scenery area, Washington DC using Dzerwhiskytangofoxtrot’s complex scenery to see how that would do. To my surprise, running at the medium VR graphics settings I was getting 30 or so, very smooth, looking very nice…

Now back to Salt Lake and I went into SteamVR and manually set the Global SS to 100% (no super-sampling) and confirmed that setting with fpsVR. The verdict was pretty straightforward, I got about a 10 to 12 FPS bump, which is a not statistically insignificant 40% or so bump, but the experience at 40FPS vs. 30FPS was not significantly difference with regards to performance…both are very smooth. But what was clearly evident was that the instruments were blurrier, and scenery out the window had more shimmer. Super-sampling is worth giving up the frames.

In a somewhat vain attempt to show the difference with 100% or 200% super-sampling, here are two screens of the JAR A320 with 100% on top and 200% on the bottom. It is more evident in the actually headset…but the MFDs and avionics are much more readable with the super-sampling turned up. You can see there was about a 6FPS penalty but I was still impressed that even a very complex plane like the JAR A320 was maintaining 30FPS with very complex scenery as well.

The experience is…well…superb. I’ve never been happier simming, and never been happier in VR…it just looks spectacular. Enough so that I’m anxious about the HP Reverb and whether it will be “better enough” to upgrade so shortly after I went to the O+. It probably will be because at the Reverb type resolutions, super-sampling may not be required.

A couple night images. Lots of backround reflections from my windows at this point…but X-Plane in the dark is superb. Feels like I’m back at SimuFlite…

So there ya’ have it. I’ll be happy to take requests or tweak some things. Not a totally scientific approach, but I hope I showed the gist of how VR is performing with the 2080Ti and i9 combo. To my untrained eye, it looks like X-Plane is using as much of the GPU as it can, but doesn’t use much processor…so perhaps upgrading your GPU is way more bang for the buck than CPU at this point (?).

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Still the same issue as DCS, I gather. Single thread hog. So with an i9 (8 core, 16 thread) you would max out at 1/16th total load or 6.25% from a sim before any other processes are accounted for.

Single thread speed is where it’s at and the i9 shines there too. I use cpubenchmark.net’s compare tool for my numbers.

Here is the 9900k vs my old i7-2600 and a mid-gen i5-6600k.

As you can see, the 9900k has a great single thread score. The large core count also means you can run more before you interfere with the single core that the sim is taking up.

This is before any overclocking, of course.

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Really good info @BeachAV8R - thanks for doing it.

As for settings, I think the only thing that might be worth tweaking would be perhaps the Antialiasing set to x16. The supersampling is sort of of doing that job too, so you could experiment with knocking that back to see if it impacts the quality/framerate balance at all.

X-Plane is another CPU core0 bound flight sim, so single thread score is really important. Laminar do seem to have big plans on this area though, so hopefully gets better and better. I agree that XP11 with a ‘lower’ framerate feels good in VR, and it’s more about stuff like dips in performance in busy areas.

I tried x1 and with the A320 at SLC was showing about 30FPS, but that shows quite a bit of shimmer. At x16 I get 26FPS (still plenty playable…) and a very nice looking picture. 8x might be a sweet spot there.

Just having fun re-exploring all of my airplanes and scenery…happier than a pig in poop!

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Did some P3D testing today. I went ahead and installed all my ORBX scenery, so all of these pictures include ORBX custom airports and ORBX regions / global vector. The aircraft are stock P3D as I haven’t added any yet.

Settings are Steam 200% Super-Sampling, while the P3D settings are all high with the exception of a few things like shadows casting/receiving, and detail distance was set one notch below maximum. AA, Aniso, and FXAA all set to maximums…

Again, being a non-combat sim, it seems like around 20FPS is smooth and enjoyable. Around 15-18 it becomes not smooth. The quick and dirty conclusion is that I can pretty much run the sim maxed out on settings in all of the areas I generally like to fly (bush flying) where big cities are few and far between. The ORBX high detailed airports work well and gauge readability is very good. Again, these pics through the lens tend to blur more than what you see in the headset (O+) and I’ve reduced the image quality from 6MP to around 1MP, so there is further loss of resolution with that.

Here is the stock Commander at OG39, ORBX Longview Ranch. FPS is around 21-22 and the sim looks good, is smooth, and feels great…

Went over to PAVD, Valdez, Alaska and used the Lockheed Electra. This is a really nice default plane included with P3D that was provided by Just Flight. Solid 21-23 FPS and it felt really good and looked great. Shut an engine down and came around for landing…very awesome views in VR…

Went to Bella Coola, BC and here, with the same graphics settings, my FPS tanked. I’m guessing the very high density of trees in this ORBX airport scenery caused this. Down to 9FPS and not flyable.

I messed around with some settings and found that Aniso, AA, and FXAA have almost no detrimental effect on FPS, but definitely make the sim look worse when you disable them. The magic bullet for Bella Coola was turning off tree shadows…I instantly popped back up to the 21-23 range where everything was smooth and comfortable. Again, I know people won’t believe that 21-23 in VR is smooth and comfortable, but honestly, it is.

Next I fired up IL2:BOS. In 2D, I can put all the sliders to the maximums (I mean the very maximums) and run at 3440 x 1440 with a refresh rate of 120 and it maintains that smooth as silk. Switching to VR, I kept all the maximum settings, but you can no longer dictate the refresh rate (it is greyed out). With all settings still at the maximum, IL2:BOS positively screamed at 70 FPS steady…no dips. It felt great, looked great, and was really cool. Too bad I don’t know what I’m doing in a WW2 airplane…

So once again, very pleased with the MSI rig. I’ll experiment more with P3D and see what settings I can dial back to maybe reach the 45FPS area. Not that it is really necessary.

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Man, I sure wish there were a smaller footprint option for the Oculus software that is needed to run Revive. 10GB is a good bit. Getting ready to install Revive so I can check out some of the Oculus software I bought. Mostly interested in playing Dirt Rally…

I think that 10 GB is made up of a lot of Unreal Engine asset files for Oculus Home and the Touch tutorial. I can’t remember the exact names (I did a diskitude to find them I think) and they are safe to nuke. The runtime through revive will work without them (I believe, might be worth moving them first and it all works then delete them as a step 2).

I’m having no luck getting Dirt Rally running via Revive. Been around and around with different versions of Revive but looks like Oculus has this one locked down. I see some stories of people getting it working, but I see just as many stories of it not working. I’m going to see if any of my Oculus titles work via Revive next.

Yeah…Super Hot loads fine through Revive…just something with Dirt Rally that doesn’t want to play nice. Super Hot looks really cool…I’m lucky I didn’t punch my monitor while testing it out…LOL…

Success!

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Did you roll back to a specific version of Revive then?

Yes, rolled back to 1.6.3 and did the thing in Steam where you deselect theater mode.

Launch Oculus
Launch WMR (or just put on the headset)
Launch SteamVR from WMR
Start Dirt Rally from Steam menu

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Oh and during the initial setup, when Revive is open, right click on the icon in the system tray and hit PATCH and direct it to the drt.exe in your Steam directory. You only have to do that once.

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So Dirt Rally…running at Steam 200% SS and maximum graphics settings runs at round 80FPS on rally stages and about 60-65FPS on the rally-cross stages (where there are a bunch of other cars on the screen). Superbly fluid and a great VR title that shows I’m not only a bad dogfighter, but apparently I can’t stay on a dirt path to save my life.

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I cannot wait to try that game in VR (and probably get violently sick).

Oh man…I could see wasting a lot of time in this game in VR…

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It’s great. When you first get a, um, ‘mech suit’ it’s epic in VR. Definitely push on to that part. I never finished it in VR as had played in 2D before but this and Skyrim are some serious VR conversions.

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Changed the name of this thread to more appropriately reflect the content…and that is just going through a bunch of pseudo-benchmarks (particularly in VR) for this Intel i9-9900k and RTX 2080Ti combo.

As expected, Aerofly FS2 runs like poured butter with all settings maxed out. I have 120 FPS selected, Vulkan (beta) API selected, 200% Steam SS, and no oversampling in game (it has a different name…I think they call it scaling - there are actually two settings, one for actual scaling (sizing) and another that I think is analogous with SS).

I simply love Aerofly FS2. It runs so nicely, has such great hand controller / cockpit interactions, is simple, yet has complex enough avionics to shoot approaches in a more natural way, and has superb graphics. No, it is not as in depth as X-Plane, but the actual piloting experience (particularly in VR) cannot be beat. If I were teaching my son to fly (soon!), I’d be using this simulator to help him grasp concepts - without a doubt.

Couple “through the lens” shots in VR of one of us corporate type pilots favorite destinations (hurl) - Aspen, Colorado. A challenging and tricky LOC approach that will keep you on your toes, and make you grateful for whatever drag component your aircraft can muster.

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