How do we know this to be true? Somebody posted it on reddit? Do anybody know them?
Why a drone sim…? They are really easy to fly. I mean, reeeally easy. If this indeed was found in their software, I’m leaning more towards devs. having fun, than making a govt. sponsored drone sim. Not that this isn’t bad enough, given who they are and the context of what this must mean regarding their allegiance.
Do the russians use small tactical drones? I though that they were the targets of those? Or have they caught up with the Ukranians in this regard? Or maybe they are trying to?
I’m not saying anybody is wrong here, but I’m going to need a little more convicing.
Troll’s right, though it is highly suspicious with the addition of the RPG munition. A particular munition not used in Korea.
What we are doing is inferring, so we can’t make any resolute judgements. But, given the behavior of the devs and those that support them? I still say it’s a safe assumption.
I agree that it’s safe to assume where the devs allegiance lie, but I seriously doubt they are making a drone sim, much less a govt. funded one at that. What little you need to know about controlling a drone can easily be learned without a sim and if you should want a sim, there are already such software available, even for free.
There’s been leaked video footage of a warehouse of this model of drone from last year- it’s a Chinese-made iFlight. And they’ve absolutely been launching attacks with drones against Ukrainian population centers with a variety of civilian drone models- a colleague of mine has been tracking this for over a year now.
I know the russians are using drones, but from what I have heard, not these types of small hobby quadcopters, like the Ukranians have been using since the start of the conflict, with good effect. But maybe funds are drying up and the russians need to find cheaper weapons…?
And the fact that they are chinese is pretty much a given, considering how the chinese companies have cornered this market. I’ve seen a lot of DJI drones from Ukrainian vids, for instance.
However, I still very much doubt that someone puts money into a quadcopter/drone simulator. But hey, if it’s governmental spending, it may very well be true, as it is completely unnecessary
(Edit. Unnecessary to learn how to fly a quadcopter. And if you feel the need to practise anyway, there already are sims available for this)
So, if these files were found in 1CGS software, I still think devs playing around, rather than making a simulator of it.
I struggle with confirming this leak though…? Is it being discussed somewhere other than reddit (and here)?
It’s my impression that during most phases of the conflict, that the lines of departure on the Eastern Front were very fluid and that the airfields were very temporary affairs for both sides. But yeah, there are times in BoS when it seems like 25 mins of snow covered fields to and from the target area. That is unless you get bagged by unknownAAA along the route.
I was going to avoid commenting on this thread. IL2 already makes me highly uncomfortable and Luke’s idiotic trolling hasn’t exactly added warmth to the chill. Yesterday I read a long article in the New York Times Magazine about the Ukraine FPV drone program. After reading, I do believe that a sim would be beneficial. The drones themselves are a cinch to fly. But operating them at their extreme ranges, what? 10-15km? means being adept at managing range and/or loiter through speed and altitude is an acquired skill. And because the adversary knows and fears the drones, they operate in cover. This means that the operator must be adept at maneuvering through trees and other obstacles at speeds of up to 70 kph. The drones are $500. The artillery shells are $3000. Cheap in the scheme of things but when multiplied by millions of units, practicing virtually makes a lot of sense. An off the shelf sim would be a big undertaking.
I haven’t seen his post but, according to the reddit feed, Luke is claiming that the models were from an upcoming FPV racing game that 1C are developing. That stretches credulity but we’ll see.
I haven’t either…and I have looked. Already deleted?
I’m not saying it isn’t true, but a post on reddit isn’t enough for me.
About drone sims… There are a few.
I know of at least one, in that list, that has the Chimera7 in it too, and simulates FPV flying.
In that list there’s also this, coming soon.
Sure, 10min with a sim can be beneficial to some, who never held a gamecontroller, which may very well be the case for many russian soldiers who come from rural areas. But it will probably sell more copies as a game… So, I stand by my assessment that I find it highly unlikely that 1CGS are making a drone sim for the russian government.
But 1CGS being a russian company, in russia, it’s not hard to imagine that they believe the Kremlin propaganda.
Not having seen any of the details, my first question is–of what use is the simulation of a jet or powerful turbine-powered plane from the early 50s to a quadcopter with no wings, no control surfaces, and just balancing of torque and prop speeds for control?
No drone maker is out there building them without the software to run them already, and being that China is such a good friend and they’re the world leaders in small drone manufacturing, I’d bet good money the Russian drone software is built on Chinese software if not specifically made for themselves.
I find it FAR more likely someone with an anti-1CGS agenda (for whatever personal or political reasons) “found” this and then posted it exactly so as to cause maximum damage to them.
I’m not saying 1CGS is necessarily innocent, just that this seems a bit too convenient.
Valid points for sure. I do think, though, that you may be downplaying the complexity of a well-orchestrated FPV strike. It looks to me like a very tough thing to learn to do well. There is a recon drone that hunts for targets, an FPV drones that suicide bombs the target, an officer who has final say on the strike, and a recon to record and assess the strike—all networked together. It’s not just about controlling the machine. It’s about using it to maximum effect.
BTW, have any of you flown one of these things? I haven’t but I have an acquaintance who races them at a fairly high level. He once had me wear the second viewfinder (headset, goggles, I don’t know what it’s called). Anyway, he then rocketed “us” around our mutual friend’s big hanger, zooming under and over planes, equipment and rafters. It was a wild ride!
The drones I have seen in use in this conflict, and the one highlighted in this leak, are simple quadcopters with FPV cameras and transmitters and a grenade strapped on it. The article posted by NN above even speculates if Russia obtained the quads via alibaba… Are you saying they have built in networking capabilities to these quads, or are you talking about military grade drones?
I am a certified drone operator and I’ve owned 5 quadcopters, of which I still use 2. I have never used one to kill anything, other than the occasional bug that got too close. My daughter had no problems controlling a quad when she was about 8 years old. Granted, she came out of the womb holding a Playstation controller…
But, as you say, using them tactically in a battle is a different matter, but from there to 1CGS are making a simulator to practice this virtually…? Nah, sorry. I still seriously doubt it. It’s just too easy to practice this with real quads. That some 1CGS devs thought it would be fun to try it out in their new engine, that I can believe. Or, as Jedi speculates, someone wants to create a stir…
To put a bit of morale equivalency here, DCS in its current form really got a jump start as A-10 task simulator for the US Air Force which was then engaged in two long-term foreign occupations and “nation state” building in the middle east. As an American I think there was legitimacy to some of our actions post 9-11, but a whole lot of the rest of the world viewed our time in the middle east about like we view Russians “intervention” in the Ukraine.
If 1C was generally silent on the “culture war” BS I’d be prepared to almost give them a pass - corporations gotta corporation after all, and I think in a kleptocratic oligopoly when you get asked to do something by the government it’s not really a choice - but after all the crap they’ve put the community through (particularly the FM stuff, people getting banned for perfectly reasonable question/comments etc.) I think a lot of us are ready to believe the worst from them.
They’re not the company they were when Oleg or Jason were there.
The drones aren’t networked. The operators (FPV, recon and supervisor/officer) are. According to the NYT article, the Ukrainian teams are all using OTC software for coordination (Google Meet for one). They all need to be looking at the same map and the same video feed. That’s where a sim would be beneficial. It would allow the trainers to build maps, edit the battlefield and serve up scenarios at will. Sure, training teams in the field with real equipment is OK. Like you said, pushing the quad around isn’t hard. Ukraine is doing just fine (presumably; wasn’t mentioned) without virtual training. A sim would give a side the edge. Even if it’s just for a weekend getting the new guy hooked up to a good sim and a pair of goggles and giving him the opportunity to experience bringing his new toy to war, dealing with intel and command and control, will make him far more efficient. I can’t believe I am being forced to sell the concept of simulation on Mudspike!
You use a sim to practice in a safe environment, right?
You want to teach a soldier how to shoot, you go to the range. You want to teach a soldier how to drive a car you do so on the streets far away from the battlefield.
Flying a quadcopter is already safe for the operator, cost effective and easy to fly and can be flown in a safe environment.
I.e. they can practice much more efficiently as it is, without a sim, IMO.
But the bottom line is, I (as in me myself and) find it very hard to believe that someone would put money on 1CGS to do it.
I’m just disagreeing with you. No big deal
If, in another life, I went to Ukraine to operate suicide drones strapped to artillery shells, I can ask myself: Would I be more effective in team if I had virtual training first? OR Would I be more effective if I got my butt to Donbas and started harassing ruskies? If the virtual training is decent, with plausible terrain and cover, has accurate mapping and, most importantly, ties the team together, all looking at the same battlefield in real time, well, I can’t speak for you or anyone else. I only know with certainty that I would benefit.
Who has time for training? They’re just getting thrown in over there.
And when you’re dealing with drones that weigh less than a human, wind is a major concern. Is Il-2’s wind modeling so awesome to be tactically useful, really?
I’m not saying there isn’t some drone sim. I’m just seriously doubting the effort would be put into adapting a WWII prop sim into one when live training or a more cheaply made purpose built sim would work 100x better.
