Razbam Announcement

[near_blind]

I guess what I’m saying is, based on the units they’ve announced in the last year, I doubt they had a grand master strategy to create an integrated map/oob. I think they are/were pursuing the opportunities that fall into their lap (abortive Flogger, MIIICZ, MiG-19, this map). They had that asset which at the time was painted as an asset expansion for their AV-8/GR-9 project. It happened to nicely dovetail in with their new map team’s ambitions.

At the moment i’d take any substantive information about the map gleaned from their existing unit choice with a healthy grain of salt. Also anything I say with a larger grain of salt.

[PFunk]

Cautiously optimistic.

[schurem]

cautiously? wildly! I just dont expect this to happen before my daughter stops shitting her pants.

[chipwich]

@schurem

my daughter stops shitting her pants

So like five years?

[Tankerwade]

You keep coming back with the whole “How will it fit into the existing plane set and what can we do with it?” rationale…

…when the truth is simply that the only calculus is that if it even has a whiff of the most important British prestige victory since El Alamein it will print ALL of the money.

Goose green is literally just a field -

But model it along with an Invincible and development should be funded for awhile.

[BeachAV8R]

[schurem]

I hope she wont be that long lol!

[Navynuke99]

From their Facebook:

“Ok, as most suspected, the 1st RAZBAM simulations terrain project is: South Atlantic Theater of Operations: The Falklands Islands.
It should be look at not just because of the historic events, but future events or “what if” situations that could’ve happened…for instance the recent discovery of oil reservoirs could sparkle a conflict not exactly against Argentina but some other world power with strategic reach…”

I’m very, very ok with all this.

[PaulRix]

This is going to be a great map for DCS. Both for historical and “what if” scenarios. I’m more excited about this than the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan and Syria to be honest.

[AeroMechanical]

Great comment from reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/8ev4im/falklands_confirmed/dxye36m/

Currently we have zero aircraft that took part in that conflict.

The USMC Harrier II N/A that we have wasn’t there and wasn’t even in production at the time.

The A-4 that’s being worked on is a free community project with no known ties to RAZBAM.

Mirage III is in the works but will likely be a while.

The assets we’ve seen are all AI/Combined Arms type stuff, although totally cool.

So…what else is in the works we don’t know about?

Shar? Gr.3? Official A-4? Super Etendard? Pucara?

So, with that in mind… what on Earth do they have up their sleeve? Is this a hint of a soon-to-come Sea Harrier or GR.3?

[near_blind]

I’d do disgusting things for a Shar. Just sayin’

[chipwich]

@Navynuke99

but future events or “what if” situations that could’ve happened…for instance the recent discovery of oil reservoirs could sparkle a conflict not exactly against Argentina but some other world power with strategic reach…”

This makes sense given the Birmingham reveal. I don’t expect a Vulcan any time soon.

[PaulRix]

To me, the comment shows a distinct lack of imagination. This is going to be a perfect map for any of the aircraft we have available, especially with the increased focus on naval aviation that we are seeing now. A fleshed out, Falklands War plane and ship set would be outstanding though. Here’s hoping there is at least one airfield in Argentina modeled.

[AeroMechanical]

@PaulRix

To me, the comment shows a distinct lack of imagination.

Awesome, can I get custom skins for my GI Joe Hornets and Tomcats while we fight the Evil Doktor Zod who has taken over the good people of the Falklands with his mind control beacon, mysteriously defended by a Russian air defense network?

Edit: Actually that sounds… pretty great when I re-read it.

[PaulRix]

I’d be up for that .

[near_blind]

@PaulRix

To me, the comment shows a distinct lack of imagination.

So here’s the rub though. The only reason anyone knows what and where the Falklands are is because of the war that took place there. That doesn’t mean you necessarily have to do the war, but if you don’t you get into an interesting situation.

The Falklands are strategically worthless. On them you will find a single airfield capable of operating fighters, collocated with the only port and only town of any significance. Properly outfitted you can neutralize that objective with a medium sized strike package. Outside of Stanley you have Goose Green, which is a field charitably, a quaint village. The rest of the island Is sheep and rocks, with the occasional farm house. I gave ED loads of guff over the perceived lack of stuff to bomb on their Straight of Hormuz map, but by comparison that map feels downright opulent.

You could shoe horn in some massive occupation force with oodles of tanks and IADS (for reference, the British reconquered the Islands with four Scimitars and four Scorpions), but at that point, what are you gaining by doing it in the Falklands? Why couldn’t you do it Normandy? The Caucuses? Nevada? Hormuz? Because the Falklands are famous, because of the war that was fought there.

If it’s the proper size, the map can be made to work, but I can’t help but ask why would I want to? You could look around the world and find numerous islands of similar scale with conflicts that happened, or almost happened, between sides with jets in DCS at the moment or near future (some closer than others).

I reserve the right to change my tune when more details become available, but Razbam failing to give the Falklands conflict the consideration it deserves, and their failure to take a chance on a more workable environment can’t help but feel like a missed opportunity on multiple levels.

[Toppometer]

@near_blind

You could look around the world and find numerous islands of similar scale with conflicts that happened, or almost happened, between sides with jets in DCS at the moment or near future

Cough East Timor Cough

[Toppometer]

I’d also add to that, aside from mountains and coastline, there isn’t too much in the way of interesting geography going on down there. Tree cover is minimal over the rolling moorland and rock fields which cover most of the islands.

Also, If they wanted an Argentinian airfield then we aren’t going to get much water east of the Islands for a task force to hide in.

[BeachAV8R]

@near_blind

I reserve the right to change my tune when more details become available, but Razbam failing to give the Falklands conflict the consideration it deserves, and their failure to take a chance on a more workable environment can’t help but feel like a missed opportunity on multiple levels.

Well, I would argue that you are arguing a point that hasn’t been defined yet. Remember - Razbam already has a GR.7/GR.9 that they made for FSX, and they’ve clearly indicated a desire (poo-poo’d by the community) to do a Pucara. So who’s to say they aren’t going to do Falklands right? That said, in the fantasy land that is DCS World, where we have MiG-15s going up against 4th Gen fighters, I don’t get where we can’t appreciate a modernized take on the Falklands. Let’s say they discovered a trillion barrels of oil down there, or a genetically perfect sheep species that provides for the perfect mutton. Hawks, helos, Harriers, and Mirages will work for me with a few units thrown in by Razbam to round it out.

@near_blind

The Falklands are strategically worthless. On them you will find a single airfield capable of operating fighters, collocated with the only port and only town of any significance.

The original Falklands invasion plan had ships inbound with Marston mat for the specific purpose of building those Harrier bases that they envisioned would be useful. The Argentines (still haven’t figured out the proper name for them without any perceived slight) managed to sink the ship that held a bulk of the materials for that project.

@near_blind

The Falklands are strategically worthless.

Requoted again because they were then, and are now. So I’m not sure why we need anything besides nationalism on both sides to justify a conflict there in 1982, 2018, or 2040.

@near_blind

Because the Falklands are famous, because of the war that was fought there.

By that logic though - should we ever play a Fulda Gap mission in any sim since it never happened? I’m just saying, I agree with @PaulRix that you can use your imagination and find a fit for DCS and the Falkland Islands. And that is just using the logic that Razbam isn’t going to do the Falklands right…which I haven’t heard to this point.

[BeachAV8R]

@AeroMechanical

Great comment from reddit:

There are some good additional comments in another thread there too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/8ew58m/razbam_falklands_flyable_aircraft_and_possible/

Here’s a look at some ways to include the current modules into this.

First, the regional modules:

The UK will only have the Hawk T.1A and Gazelle, and the AV-8B can do a passable job as a GR.7 with some goodwill. While far from ideal, all aircraft are fit to be operated in a stranded environment with limited support.

Argentina will have the Mirage IIICJ, F-86F, UH-1H and Mi-8 in mostly accurate variants, plus the A-4E which lacks in some capabilities but can stand in for the A-4AR visually.

Chile will have the F-5E, A-29, C-101, UH-1H and Bo 105 in mostly accurate variants.

Argentina’s older, sexier, richer and bigger sibling Brazil will have the F-5E, Mirage 2000C, A-29 and UH-1H in mostly accurate variants, plus the Mirage IIICJ and the A-4E mod which make passable stand-ins for the Mirage IIIEBR and A-4KU.

Then, Team World Police, because if none of those three show up in your backyard, odds are you just don’t matter:

The US will be well-supplied. We’re talking AV-8B, A-10A, A-10C, F-4E, F-14A, F-14B, F-15C, F/A-18C and UH-1H, all of which are either capable of air-to-air refueling to get there or can work off ships.

Russia will also be loaded, having the L-39, MiG-21bis, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25, Su-27, Su-33, Mi-8, Mi-24P and Ka-50. The Su-33 can get to the region through the Kuznetsov, the Su-27 has enough range to make it in a few hops, while everyone else benefits from Russia’s obnoxious airlift capabilities.

Finally, China can take the J-11A, Mi-8 and JF-17 to the party, even if the latter still hasn’t been added to Chinese ranks and might not be in the end.

AI aircraft are less of a problem, with plenty of tankers, AEW platforms, attack aircraft, fighters, strategic bombers and anything else you could wish for.

The timeline: Clearly the tools at hand are fit for a what-if scenario set after the war but preferably before 2006 or so since that’s when the Typhoon started appearing in numbers for the UK, and we don’t have that.

The scenarios: Endless possibilities, but two main paths to take - combat originating from regional crisis/conflict, or as a small part of a wider conflict raging elsewhere. US vs. Russia proxy wars gone hot, the Junta stays after the Falklands War so The Witch goes wild and decides to take Tierra del Fuego to rob Argentina of the initiative in a future war, a political dispute gone hot between MERCOSUR/L and the US, UK or NATO, China trying to get a foothold in the region by going for low-hanging fruit… Within the scope of DCS where far crazier ■■■■ flies and it’s all about having fun in the end, the map actually has lots of room for that.

What do you folks think? Share ideas, dreams and so on for this map!