Ya, I have one…saw that video, will see about using it once I get the basics down.
It’s highly subjective, but I guess that the more buttons the better. I’m using a Virpil HOTAS setup, but with a TM Viper/A-10 grip. A TM Warthog would work, but you could probably get by with a Saitek X56. I’ve been flight simming for 3 decades, so guess that I’m in it for the long haul and don’t mind spending more for premium gear. Others may find that excessive.
The X56 is a good setup although it’s not exactly entry-level price ($300).
The TM T1600M is about $160 and the X52 is $170. Others are $200+ and might be more than you’re willing to invest if you’re just getting back into it.
I got the Winwing Orion setup (both Hornet and Viper grips and throttles, not the helo collective…yet). It cost me almost $1000 for the 2 bases and 4 grips in total.
The quality is pretty good for the price. A nice gateway HOTAS. But I’m afraid that he would be want of more buttons. X52 probably minimum for the Apache.
If there is a way to export the keybindings out, I’ll put up my bindings for using my Cobra. One POV hat, 1 4 way hat, a couple buttons, twist grip and throttle. I don’t think I have any shifted keybinds besides the ones DCS defaults to like engine power levers to idle for start.
Can’t find an easy way to kick out my keybinds so here they are in order from the setting menu:
Collective, cyclic, throttle, pedals - joystick axis as appropriate
Chaff dispense - del
consent to fire - joystick button
cursor control down/left/right/up - . , / ;
cursor display select depress - ’
cursor enter depress - Enter
debriefing window - Rshift+’
Flare dispense - insert
Force trim AT/left - joystick button
Force trim R/up - joystick button
IHADDS - i
NVS Select switch PNVS - Lshift-E
NVS select switch TADS - Lshift-D
Plt NVS mode - norm - E
PLT NVS mode - off - D
Sight Select Switch - 4 way POV hat on my joystick (I don’t think I’ve used this once, so might not need it)
Symbology Select Switch Down - A
Symbology Select Switch Up - Q
Weapon Action Switch (WAS) - 4 way switch on my joystick - definitely want this one
Weapon trigger guard open - Lshift+C
Weapon trigger second detent - joystick trigger
Wheel brake - W
AI Helper Show/Hide - Lctrl+V
AI helper Down/Left/Right/Up - S/A/D/W
I use the stick to control the sight rather than the AC when I’m in the CPG seat. If I had to fly from the front seat in an emergency I’d have to keyboard it.
cursor control down/left/right/up - . , / ; identical to the pilot seat
cursor display select depress - ’ identical to the pilot seat
cursor enter depress - Enter identical to the pilot seat
debriefing window - Rshift+’ identical to the pilot seat
IHADDS - H different than the pilot to avoid conflicting with the weapon keys
LHG Store switch - Store - Enter I need to use this more to figure the system out to know what I need
LHG TADS FOV Switch - Medium/Narrow/Wide/Zoom - SADW mirrors the direction of the switch press
LHG TADS Sensor select - FLIR - T
LHG TADS Sensor select - TV - G no DVO keybind as it’s not used in the Apache
LHG Weapon Activation Switch (WAS) A2A/Gun/Missle/Rocket - J/U/I/Y
LHG Weapon trigger second detent - joystick button
RHG FLIR polarity - joystick button
RHG Laser range finder first detent - joystick trigger stage 1
RHG Laser range finder second detent - joystick trigger stage 2
RHG Sight select switch - joystick 4 way switch
RHG Sight slave button - joystick button
I don’t have every switch or button mapped, I haven’t found that an undue hinderance. There are a few shifted keybinds, but I tried to make them logical and easy to reach. All the default DCS keybinds are still in place (ie Lctrl+C to open close the door). As I get further into the system and they add the FCR I’ll probably have to make some changes, but until then I find this works pretty well for me.
Only bit of caution is the TADS zoom keys overlap the George IA helper keys. As of yet I haven’t found it a big enough deal to change them, but I might move the zoom keys over to the POV hat to fix that conflict.
Thanks for all the help… I’ll see what I can do with all the advice. I think I can fly the damn thing, just getting all the keys and commands down is the hard part.
What I was referring to thou is that IMO every command should have a key stroke assigned, at least the required ones. That way you can fly with the stick but still use the keyboard for all the details. Like what I did here for both the A10 and KA-50… What I don’t understand is WHY the Apache doesn’t have these assigned keyboard short cuts, would make it easier, I usually make cheat sheets.
Yeah, the Apache seems to have a daunting array of HOTAS (HOCAS?) controls. We desperately need some brave soul to design a 3D-printable stick and collective head for the masses to print.
I think at a bare minimum they should have enough of the commands with keybinds to at least fly/fight the aircraft. I get not having them for every button (otherwise you end up having something crazy like Lshift+Ralt+Numpad*).
I know people look down on the “shortcuts” the FC’s birds have, but honestly pressing 6 on my keyboard, versus hitting the dogfight switch is different how? Or pressing D for new ordinance type, versus the missile select switch? I think there could definitely be a layer of abstraction in the control for people without HOTAS, or those wanting 900 keybinds.
I don’t look down on anyone for flying anything however they want to, not at all.
It’s just with VR, I can’t use keyboard shortcuts anymore. So I’ve got to great lengths to have 1:1 buttons for everything. Here in a few more days (or weeks, or months…) I should have everything in a Hornet cockpit physically simulated. Unfortunately, that’s a lot of effort just for one bird, and too much for everyone to do. Probably making keybinds for every single function in the cockpit would be impossible as well. I agree with you on the bare minimum aspect.
Things are a lot simpler with WWII warbirds vs modern aircraft, aren’t they? It’s amazing to think about how complex the machines we’re simulating really are now.
This is a very interesting and informative thread - thanks to @Magnum50 for starting it.
One of the things about the CPG cockpit is that many of the cyclic/collective buttons are also on the TEDAC Right and Left Handgrips. Functions like the cursor controls only have to be mapped once. Plus, as I may have mentioned elsewhere, the weapons trigger on the hand grip does not have a trigger guard.
I found this video to be extremely helpful:
and also this one:
I have referred to both many (many) times over te last few months.
Very useful indeed! Thanks Will!
Well just ordered a Logitech Saitek X56 H.O.T.A.S still a month or so away guess they are on back order.
Still not happy about paying $250 for it when my Logitech flight stick is perfect, small, and convenient… back to my saying that keyboard shortcuts should have been made for all the usual mappings. Not all of us want huge HOTAS setups, but still want to fly and play flight sims. Will see how that works in a month or so.
I haven’t used a Saitek stick in a long while, but I think that you’ll be happy with it, once you see how useful it is to have extra buttons and axis at your fingertips, while giving up minimal desktop space.
I think the X56 is very versatile and will work well for the Apache as well as anything else you want to fly.
so as not to highjack someone else’s thread and not start a new one…
I’m doing the gun tutorial when I get this screen, looking at the manual it doesn’t say WAS-UP but I’m assuming it’s the gun select on the left handle, but out of view. Am I right? and how do I look around to those buttons to turn it on. (again, a keyboard short cut would of been nice. lol)
Yep, you can just see RKT hiding behind the GAIN knob in your image. Better picture on page manual page 71, figure 46. I need to setup a PS4 controller tonight for that.
Well, I finally was able to get pass that step by using my TrackIR to look to the left and click the gun button, lol… even thou I programed it to a stick command, wouldn’t work.
So now next step… (I know this is an early open beta but getting tired of having to exit the game every new step and research via You Tube, the manual, and this forum on how to do the next step. lol)
I programmed the cursor key to a stick button and the arrows on my keyboard for the up/down/left/right… none work. So how do you active the TSD cursor. I don’t really want to watch ANOTHER 30 min You Tube video just to get my 1 question answer, lol… or read chapters in the manual till I find it. I mean it’s a tutorial, when it ask you to do something shouldn’t it tell you HOW to do that. lol…
Think I might take a break from this till my HOTAS arrives… I’ve spent about 2 or 3 hours a day for the last week with this and still haven’t gotten much of anywhere. lol
Oh! Oh! I know this one! (Only because I just did the Nav training mission, lol). Cursor select I think is what it’s called, it’s another button on the collective in addition to cursor enter. Search ‘cursor’ in the controls and you’ll find it.
Supposedly you can also switch between the displays by taking the cursor to the edge of the screen twice, but I haven’t tried that.
“cursor display select depress” is what you’re after. You will also want “cursor enter depress” to be able to actually select anything.
Yep just double tap the direction it needs to go. IE if you are on the right MFD and need to go to the left MFD, move the cursor to the left edge, and then double tap left and it will pop over to the left MFD.