SU25T Training

Strange - I have managed 3-4 times to get to the runway, but unable to reach takeoff speed., have kept crashing.
I left the sim for 1/2 hr came back and now cannot even start the engines, flaps stay on about 25%. Anyone have any ideas or is this a common fault in the game.
TIA

Sounds like some sort of controller problem? When you say you left the sim, was DCS running and you just left the computer for half an hour? In that case, maybe some other windows app came in focus. It’s a known problem in VR, that your mouse, joysticks and keyboard stop responding, if you happen to click outside the DCS window. Could this have happened in 2D as well?

Check key bindings … Sometimes the throttle gets double bound to other controls like the rudder

Apologies everyone, I had been using my Thrustmaster joystick with its small thumbgrip missing and had jammed a bit of plastic in its place.Obviously didnt work, eventually found it and shoved it back in and now works ok. Have managed to take off and did a touch and go landing, swung around and did a touch and ran out of runway landing. Will now have to check if I can do the same without waiting for the instruction texts. I did notice that with “this” joystick the power up/down seems to be full or nothing is this the same with digital joysticks or do you have a smooth power up/down.

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Did you bind the throttle to the analogue axis or button style controls

Just as a general tip (obviously wasn’t the key issue here), from memory the 25T version is quite heavy for its engines - so when you’re just starting out, using 50% fuel and no weapons under the wings makes her behave a lot less sluggish. Full fuel and bombs and she flies like a pig.

Nope

So which one? Axis or buttons?

Z axis thrust, boomerang 10 gave me the heads up. Looks like I need to do some reading up on the Frogger. Thanks for response.

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Good work. I think the thing is, many of us have been flying DCS for a while, so we forget how unintuitive it can be.

While DCS is still a “game” rather than a 100% full-fidelity simulator, it’s the closest thing to a military flight simulator experience that you can freely buy. It is close enough to the real thing that it can be used for some limited aspects of real-life military training…and as such, in terms of the user experience, it is definitely a simulator first, a game second. There’s very little hand holding that the game offers and you can expect to have to put in practice, read manuals, look for things online, ask on the forums etc. to pick things up - and it will take a bit of time to get proficient.

To paint the picture - I have modules (DCS aircraft) that I’ve bought years ago but simply haven’t had the time to dig into yet. I could hop into one of those aircraft in a cold and dark state and chances are, I wouldn’t even get the engine running, let alone get the aircraft configured properly for a safe flight. In terms of the buttons and switches, it’s exactly the same as walking into a real-life aircraft with no manual and get asked to get it going (noting that pilots in real life also use checklists, even after all their training).

So - like @komemiute said, read the game manual and the Su-25T manual in the first place, bit by bit, over time, and get acquainted with the flying first, then the weapons etc.

It is a very rewarding process but quite different to typical entertainment games where the experience and the level of challenge is engineered to be rewarding for the average casual gamer. In DCS, the level of challenge is essentially set by the complexities of the real-life machines the game is pursuing to simulate.

In terms of bugs - yes they exist, and sometimes major ones still slip through the testing process…but by and large, the bugs are more subtle and often concern a particular system of a particular aircraft module rather than the base game itself.

Simmers can be a demanding bunch and the buggyness of DCS is sometimes potentially overstated on some forums: people get emotional when they’ve spent hours and hours getting their A-game on with a particular aircraft / system and a patch suddenly breaks a thing or two for a few weeks or months. It happens, it’s not great when it does…but its a complex sim and sometimes patches break things, it’s life.

While DCS has some bugs, you should be able to get fully proficient with the Su-25T and never encounter any major bugs. So if something doesn’t do what it should do, in terms of aircraft systems or behavior…it’s a fairly high chance that a step in the process was overlooked and that you just need to try again.

Some of the above comments have kind of been said already, so hopefully it wasn’t too repetitive. I also hope that didn’t come across as condescending and if it did, I apologize - just trying to clarify why the initial gaming experience is what it is, and why it is worthwhile to get through the initial hurdles :slight_smile:

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Feeling happy for all the guys out there that dont have problems with DCS and particularly with the SU25T Mod. Unfortunately I’m not one of them. Its doing my head in trying to find basic info on this module ( maybe others to come). I am not a regular player and am fairly new to the game. All the info on the sim ,heaps of forums which would take years to trawl through ,its truly incredible except for an old newbie like me.Even the DCS website sends you everywhere except itself for help ,there none in the game that I can see. RANT OVER. At the moment I have 2 gripes. 1. The HUD - colours someone informed me how to change, but only found crappy ones ,I need black text for when I am in clouds.2. The training text, top RHS, if you are a slow reader or try double checking what you have just read or heavens forbid look around the cockpit or HUD to see what he is talking about , about 2 seconds later its all gone and no way I can see to get the instruction back up, It says press space bar to continue but continues whether you are ready or not. Any idea where this is in the manual - dont think so. I know some of you guys can direct me to Chucks tutorials but he dosnt have them all and misses out a lot of the basics. Any ideas on my two queries muchly appreciated.

1: You’ll probably need to mod that. I know there’s some black text HUD mods for some aircraft but don’t know about the Su-25T.

2: hit the pause button on your keyboard. That will freeze everything including the hints.

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I get your frustration. DCS is as hard to learn as it is fun, once you start actually feeling comfortable. I would recommend Youtube for most of the lessons. Search for videos of DCS SU25T and there will be plenty of tutorials For me it was how I learned.

About the training lessons… It could be a bug, it could be a double binding for the spacebar. Since DCS uses the spacebar for the trigger, I’d check if you have some craziness with your configuration there.

But it could just be a mission bug. Many missions have small bugs, especially older content such as the SU-25, I wouldn’t be surprised.

But as weird as it seems, keep at it! It is worth it!

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Thanks for your reply Bryan, Ok can try these tips. However its guys like you maybe through trial an error that these BASIC commands are found for new players, not exactly a professional setup from DCS. Correct me if I,m wrong but I believe you cant have a go at DCS unless running the BETA version as STABLE is “supposed” to be the finished product. It sure is a weird idea they have but beginning to learn through all the posts that its not a finished product. I found the L-ctrl H brings up HUD colour change but the colours are rubbish, like you say will have to find a mod for this its driving me nuts. The pause button is obvious but if you need to go back a step or look around the cockpit your’e stuffed. Anyhow thanks for your response - Cheers

Yeah thanks for the reply. Must admit I dont have much patience especially as I have a slow machine and dont like having to start the lesson over and over again. Hitting the PAUSE will help a bit but if I have to look round the cockpit I’m stuffed again ( I think). The HUD colour, can get about 3 shades green, 2 yellow, 1 pink , great colours NOT when flying in clouds ( I hope pilots dont have to put up with this in real aircraft ). Anyhow will keep on looking, I havnt touched any CFG files or anything yet.( but I may have a go - the colour may be able to edit it should just be ASCII ). Thanks once again for the input.

I’ll toss out DCS has been out in various forms (LOMAC, Flaming Cliffs, DCS, etc) for well over a decade (17 years for LOMAC!). Some of the aircraft like the A-10 and the SU-25 have been there since the beginning and do show their age in a lot of ways. The SU-25T is newer, but even then the training missions are ancient compared to the newer aircraft. So if all you’re judging DCS on is the SU-25T, a lot of the other modules have a much more refined set of training missions. I also completely agree that DCS could do a better job cleaning up some of these legacy issues to be a more attractive product for new users.

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I think its very good for the price. The paid modules are an obvious step up in quality and content but as a free product I think the Frogfoot and Mustang are incredibly entertaining. I never had a problem with learning to fly the Su-25t using the training missions and the manual. I spent a lot of time in that plane before I was bought the FC3 planes by my wife and it all snowballed from there. I had much more of an easy time with DCS than XP11.

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Maybe a lot of what you say is true, but for new users its new and keeping up with the big boys. However it does need cleaning up especially for the beginner. ED should know this is not the way to go frustrating beginners, its like getting someone hooked on drugs, the first one is free.

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I think they know. They have actually something called MAC (Modern Air Combat) in the works. And based on info released in the past MAC seems to me to be aimed specifically on new users.

Some info here, maybe others have also some other sources of info which they can share

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@ahab: Maybe you struggle with the format of the training missions. It’s definitely not ideal in terms of questions like “what was that again?” :wink:

Do you know that there is a pretty fine manual from ED? It kind of hidden. Check your installation folder, e.g.
C:\Games\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Su-25T\Doc

You also might look for some tutorial on YouTube where you can actually pause and rewind as often as you like.

DCS is not very beginner friendly. It attracts those kind of people who like to dig in and find out on their own. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea…

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