The Russian Ministry of Information video thread


Lordy, lordy…look who’s forty…!


Not Russian…but China and their new attack helo…looks sort of like an S-76 and Eurocopter Tiger mated and created this thing…


Seems-- expendable. AND a military version of a civilian Helo (from middle to tail), IMHO.


It is actually closer to the frame of the Italian made attack helicopter (Mangusta). I can’t remember if China had purchased some rights to the design or whether they stole it via corporate espionage but I believe there was some cooperation there. If you look at pics side by side, they are pretty close IMHO.


I knew it!

It is built using components of the Harbin Z-9 which is a licence built version of the Eurocopter Dauphin[/quote]

Actually I was just lucky I guess.5


I’ve got a pretty extensive book on the Chinese Air Industry and from what I remember reading in it they (Chinese) really don’t design, they copy a lot and borrow a lot and/or steal a lot. They are still working to actually build an infrastructure, both physical and intellectual in order to do the job themselves. That is why when western companies go over to try and penetrate the Chinese market for business, the Chinese government requires them to partner with a Chinese business. You can understand why the Chinese Government requires this and the implications to our public investment in high technologies and it’s threat to our national security.

Here is the book I’m talking about.


Not quite fair, the Chinese themselves invest massively in modern technology. Yes, the last few generations have largely been license build from other manufacturers but the most recent tech definitely features a lot of original research and idea’s. Couple this with the rise in highly educated chinese and you can see why they will probably thrive on their own quite well soon enough.

Besides, when looking at aviation these days all the companies are landing on very similar designs because there’s only so many ways to increase efficiency.


"The Irkut MC-21 is designed to compete with the most popular airliners in the world, the single-aisle Boeing (BA) 737 and Airbus (EADSF) A320.

The prototype took flight Sunday morning from the Irkutsk Aviation Plant airfield in Siberia, about 2,600 miles east of Moscow. During the 30-minute flight, the plane reached an altitude of 1,000 meters (roughly 3,300 feet)."


Actually, my statements were more than fair regarding Chinese espionage activities associated with industrial espionage.

The Chinese government plays a very important part in economic espionage. Their aim is to save Chinese companies the time and actual capital that would need to be typically spent on research and development. They do this by just copying the processes of proven methods of production from someone who already has perfected that process with the already spent millions of dollars and brain-power associated.

Examples of this are numerous in various reports and studies done by think tanks, universities and national defense agencies. Some of the examples given in these reports are as follows; In one example, spies were targeting the manufacturers of sprinkler heads hoping to gain an edge in their market by stealing manufacturing techniques to make the company more efficient. Cases of theft include technological advances in paint, Kevlar, and seeds and grain, as well as traditional targets such as military telecommunications. Of course aeronautical industry is a prime target of the Chinese intelligence agencies, reasons of which I’m sure we don’t really need to get into here.

Below are some resources for exploring this issue further.

Chinese Industrial Espionage: Technology Acquisition and Military Modernization


Sure, but espionage is the mainstay of any government, just look at the massive industrial apparatus the US has developed to do just this. Can’t fault the Chinese for trying. They are doing quite a bit of original research too, I think you are denying the academic involvement world wide of China these days. That is not simply a copy and paste machine.


The Chinese are a unique case where national espionage is directly interlinked with their corporate eco-system. Advantages or information gained through national means is fed directly into “private” corporations to give them undue advantage. The US and her partners have a sizeable intelligence and espionage apparatus, yes, but they are solely for national defense. You generally won’t see the CIA giving schematics of some new doohickey they found to Raytheon, Lockheed, or even Google or Apple.

That’s not to say that the Chinese don’t have a robust academic base to draw from, far from it, but to imply that the Chinese government doesn’t wield the state hacking apparatus as a means to jump start their semi-private industry is willful ignorance.


Oh come on, more then once has it come out that the US has fed intelligence information directly into it’s own corporate system, I doubt anyone outside of the USA buys that line of reasoning these days.


I’m gonna need some examples.

If the executive does that for anything other than direct national defense needs (and even then), suddenly the government is playing favorites with private corporations. When that leaks, and it’ll leak, suddenly you have a majestic legal typhoon of biblical proportions as every competitor to the company that received that information, living and dead begins suing the pants off of everything that moves.


Sure, but that’s the difference between a scandal in the United States and multiple nations criticizing an acknowledged part of the Chinese industrial process.

There’s a difference between a Government providing a Defense Contractor information to build a device or process to respond to a threat and a Government dispensing foreign proprietary information to a native consumer company with the intent of undercutting the foreign investor.

To their credit, they are getting better, but they have a long road ahead of them in both technological and corporate culture development.


plus add all the embassy spying into that, which largely is a tool to facility trade deals and negotiations. Everyone around here is solidly convinced the US is spying to happily enrich itself as it always has. People haven’t forgotten the NSA scandals.

Frankly, as someone with no horse in this race(it’s really a show off between US and Chinese resources) I have absolutely zero faith in either side playing fair game.


That article agrees with my point: There is a distinct difference between the US government hacking a state run oil company to gain insight in trade deals, as opposed to directly handing that information to US based oil companies to enrich their position directly.

A another example from the article: the US government will not hack Airbus to give technical information to Boeing, whereas the Chinese government is more than happy to hack Boeing, and deliver whatever designs and schematics they happen upon to their own aircraft manufacturers.


Okay, another article:

In text released ahead of a lengthy interview to be broadcast on Sunday, ARD TV quoted Snowden saying the NSA does not limit its espionage to issues of national security and he cited German engineering firm, Siemens as one target.

“If there’s information at Siemens that’s beneficial to U.S. national interests - even if it doesn’t have anything to do with national security - then they’ll take that information nevertheless,” Snowden said, according to ARD, which recorded the interview in Russia where he has claimed asylum.

Not sure what filtered back to the USA, but it’s been pretty clear that major foreign companies have been spied upon by the US to give local competitors a leg up. It’s not a secret anymore.

EDIT: There’s a ton of articles on a whole host of different sites out there that stipulate that the NSA is doing a lot of industrial espionage:


How about we try keeping this to videos and ooh ahh stuff…that makes my life easier… :wink:


NEVER. The honor of my country has been besmirched! my jingoistic ire raised! my-

oh hey, SA-15 gif.



What is that launcher burning? Coal?