I brought up the good and the bad, and as I saw it, there was more good than bad. The review should reflect that.
The gimbal of the VPC T-50 is made from machined aluminium. The cams seems to be stamped or cut steel.
The VKB gimbal is very good! Like I wrote above, I used to own a VKB Black Mamba. I also got the cam gimbal upgrade. It was very good! A little too light for my taste, since I used the extension and the heavy Warthog stick grip on it.
The new nylon “dry clutches” of the VKB Gunfighter looks interesting.
I’d just like to chime in and say to any high end peripheral manufacturers that might be reading: While @Troll may be a diligent and scrupulousness reviewer, I am not notnot one of those. Specifically if some company wanted to send me a Komodo UH-1 collective…
I finally got the chance to open my T-50. The shipment took almost one month from Belarus to Switzerland. Of course it finally arrived when I was on long vacation…
First impression on the stick is very nice. The extra cams do have an unpolished surface. Since my stick seems to be from the first batch that was sent out, I assume these are still the defective ones and I should request the replacement cams right away? I don’t want to open this thing up and fumble with it if these are the wrong cams anyway. Let’s just hope these do not take another month of shipment.
My major problem, now that I finally have it in my hands, I have not the slightest plan how to mount it on my Obutto. Anyone has any ideas? I don’t have tools, material or skills. Extra difficulty: The seat’s central mounting plate (to install the seat’s central Warthog mount) was welded on at an odd angle, both in pitch and bank. So far it didn’t bother me but now it might become a problem. I figured the best way would be separate the seat and the monitor-stand with some sort of spacer and then to install the T-50 base such that the stick extends between the upper mounting tubes (where seat and monitor-stand would connect).
Regardless of the final mounting solution, it seems I will have to order the extensions. Frankly I am not too happy with how they look like. I think they look like a user mod and not like an integral part of the product. I wish they would do a nice curved extension to facilitate mounting low and close to the lap:
This is the problem with the Thrustmaster interface.
If you put a S bend extension, you’re going to put rotational loads on the threaded interface, and possibly unscrew it.
That could be overcome by using a locking screw, or similar.
Do you have pictures of the seat, where you want to mount the stick? I had to manufacture a mount from wood, to test the stick. I’m going to make a better one from metal, when I have time…
This way the stick is terribly far forward though. I can adjust by sliding the seat forward, but the overall seating position will be very steep on the rudder pedals (whose position is fixed by constrains of the monitor stand). Not optimal, but probably the best solution.
Here is my problem with the Obutto’s mounting plate though:
Note how twisted this is welded on. This is actually pretty shoddy quality for a product of this price. But getting the seat was such a huge monster shipment that I chosed to ignore it at that point, avoiding the trouble of sending it back for repairs.
Initially I thought the seat (right structure) and the monitor stand (left structure) could be separated and the box be placed between them, for the stick to extend between the upper horizontal tubes. But the vertical space between the upper and lower tubes is not sufficient to fit the gimbal box.
That is looking really neat! It is also so compact that some additional 2-3 cm of closer mounting are gained over the default U-bracket. I think the top holes would need to be lower with the plate widening at a square angle, as otherwise the bottom of the gimbal-box will not fit above the lower tube of the monitor-stand. It is a rather tight fit actually.
How well do you think this would handle the torque in pitch? Especially as in my unique case, I could not fit it flush with the existing mounting plate on the seat structure (because it is tilled and twisted) and would have to somehow fumble in spacers to even it out.
Exactly, I have metal soldered extension on my cougar and I need to fix it in place in a particular way or suffer the nut coming off. I’ve made some CAD designs to fix this but haven’t had the motivation to build it, 3D printing is not THAT cheap unfortunately.
Those are some fantastic ideas. I like the idea of a horizontal bracket, that should solve the problems with both stability and alignment. I think a single piece that reached over the top would be the simplest variant. I took some measurements as good as I could and came up with the following sketch:
The allowances for the base to fit are real tight. The top and bottom screws on the casing might need to be removed on the rear facing side (they aren’t essential, right?), then it should work. What do you think?
The true question is, where to get the piece? Is there some online service where you can send in blueprints and get a piece manufactured?
I just noticed I don’t even have a small enough hex key to open the base and change the cams
Small shop nearby, give them a bit of tolerance(which is fine anyway) and they should be able to do this relatively quickly. It might cost you more then if you’d do it yourself but if you don’t have the tools then it’s a good solution. Perhaps there’s an engineering college nearby that has a few students up for the task?
Few things missing on your drawing:
the corner radius of the 9mm bolts.
spacing is usually marked from the same end, so all vertical distances are on the left, and come from the same origin.
You haven’t specified a bend radius. This is needed to calculate the amount of sheet metal needed given that metal stretches and extends when you fold it in a corner. Thick steel is harder to bend then think steel.
The verticle alignment of the 9mm hols is not specified on the left drawing but (kinda) is on the right one. Not a common notation. Also note that it’s specified from the top, in this case the top of the bit that runs to the forward face.
Another thing, the 9mm will get bolts through them, can you still install the bolts this way, or from the other way if needed?
Yes, and no…
With my two-part solution you would get 2x3mm at the T-50 base, and just have to bend 3mm sheet steel plates. But if you have to get it from a metal shop you could do it your way, as they probably have tools to bend 5mm sheet steel
I’ll just say I read many F-22 reviews back in the day. There weren’t any video reviews for it because that was inconceivable in the mid-90s!
By now I’m sure you’d need to dig deep in the internet archives to find them, hardly relevant anymore.
My G940 is still holding on, but I’m getting frustrated by the rubberized plastic covering…it’s gone sticky.
I had some thin gauze and I wrapped the handle where my hand rests so I’m not stuck to it, but now it’s UGLY.
So pissed at Logitech for making this setup that was pretty decent, and to date the sole FFB HOTAS set produced, including pedals, throttle, and FFB stick w/Hall sensors, then abandoning it instead of taking it to the next level. I bought it shortly after its release which was 2009 I think? Wow…
I tried to whip up a quick CAD file you could use in FreeCad but for some reason I can’t get it to extrude properly today… I must be poo poo’ing something up. It can be a bit of a PITA to use but still better then alternatives like Onshape(no colours in the interface… whyyyy).
I did this “mod” on my Warthog after it began to get sticky around the center point from a couple of years of regular use. It seems to be holding up really well.
Still, I know that it won’t last forever. So, I’m reading with great interest all of these new high end flight control reviews. Competition usually does improve the breed, and we are fortunate indeed to have VKB and VPC bring improved hardware to market. Add TM’s Hornet stick announced at E3, and we have some pretty exciting decisions to make in the very near future.
If anyone builds an offering better than the Warthog Throttle, I will be surprised. The combination of HOTAS throttle and switch panel is a huge leap for folks who don’t want to build sim pits, but like to have a bunch of switches within easy reach.
I very much appreciate @Troll’s and any other in depth review, which ultimately will allow the consumer to make an informed purchasing decision. Winter may be coming, but some of us will fly into it gleefully with new flight controls in hand.
I really want to know if Thrustmaster has learned anything from the gimbal design that are currently popular on the market! Their offering for the Cougar was pretty atrocious, although I realize the dev team was quite budget constrained. The Warthog is better but suffers from wrong material choices(large part of the problem for the cougar as well though).