VR, TrackIR, POV Slew and other lamentations on view control in flight sims

Its harsh to say (and very unpopular) but VR will be an afterthought as long as take up amongst users is in the low single-figure %ages…
Which means 95% of users + DON’T have VR

Its easy to see confirmation bias…we all have VR here…so VR kit is popular…in the same way its easy to imagine everyone is gaming on 3900Ks/9700Ks with 1080Ti’s/2080Ti’s using Warthogs and Track Ir
Truth is we’re a tiny percentage that invest hundreds upon hunds on peripherals and thousands on our PCs…

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Indeed! Non-VR here.
I’ve already spent a fortune and I’d have to spend another to get into VR. DCS performance is good but not great in plain old monitor mode so expecting VR performance before we even see 2D optimized is beyond optimistic. Wags even alluded to in one of the videos having to balance our settings again towards performance - for 2D users!

DCS while it can use tons of upgrades and optimizations is still pushing the limits of current technology, especially graphically. 2D users on 1080p can fill the 8GB of video ram of the mid-upper range cards (1070ti / 2070) and higher resolutions will need more (1080/2080 coming with 11GB) not to mention the processing power as well.

Hopefully the next gen GPU’s will be a big leap and provide more video memory without extortionate pricing - to see my point look up Nvidia’s current Quadro series where video memory gets up over 20GB and even 48GB if I recall correctly.

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I’m not using VR either and really don’t plan to until the headsets become lighter.
However, I still have and enjoy a 3D TV and my 3D blurays. That tech died out and you can’t buy TVs, players, or discs anymore. You don’t even see 3D monitors for gaming anymore. Why?

People didn’t buy them. They looked better than regular TV, so why didn’t people go for it?
They didn’t want the hassle of wearing the glasses. Super light, cheap, no power or wires required glasses.

Are we to believe that if the headsets cost several hundreds to $1000, weighed a lot more, had wires, and prevented you from seeing everything else in the room but the screen, they would’ve done better?

Even UltraHD blurays are struggling to survive and they just work…because people don’t want the hassle of needing to use a DISC. Picture can be inferior, sound can be inferior, but as long as the experience of just clicking on something to make it play without the effort investment of walking across the room and putting a disc in a player is available, that’s what they will gravitate towards.

VR may look amazing. It is not convenient.

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Remember the time when TrackIR was a necessity. If it broke, you couldn’t play anymore until repaired. VR to me now is the same. I cannot fly without it.

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@simfreak Good point, I do remember; using my thumb to look around was immersion breaking?. TIR spoiled me - brought me just a tiny bit closer to “being there”. Some people pooh-poohed TIR.

I’d rather be “there” in the cockpit, upside down, looking up through my visor if you will, than looking at a picture on the wall that is upside down. Even if it’s a really sharp picture.

And my seat shaker, as I’ve set it up, is another I can’t go without anymore. I think this piece of kit and VR complement each other more than in 2D.

The headset isn’t as comfortable as wearing…nothing…but slipping the headset on is perhaps like slipping a helmet on? I can’t go for more than about 2 hours but it’s worth it.

Zactly. I blame the cell phone and the need for instant gratification. Imagine 20 years from now?

People might actually starve if they had to go the bank every Friday to pick up their paychecks now (though there are probably those that still have to). But my grandparents (think Great Depression) thought me spoiled because I did it in an automobile. They thought we’d grown ‘soft’. And they were correct.

Ugh. This is probably the last flight sim I’ll ever use - I just can’t do it on my phone, even with its “Retina”, “Ultra-Rez”, “Super-duper”, “Magic” screen resolution; that’s probably where it’s all headed.

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Where can I sign this? :grinning:

It may sound weird to some (VR as well as non-VR guys), but every single time I put the HMD on I have this “wow” moment as the VR world dawns on me and I am becoming part of it :vr:

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Yup, slipping on the HMD after I slide into my pit, its like strapping on a jet. Part of the ritual. Wouldn’t want it any other way.

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Yeah…for brilliance I would add the Viggen and MiG-21. Not so good moments? Well the last time I asked about the Hawk I got flagged and slapped down…back then I cared so I let it go; now, not so much. What did happen? I really don’t know, but I assume a “not so good moment”.

I’m the same. In fact I’m thinking of hiring a crew chief just to hand me the VR headset as he would hand me my helmet. That said, I can live with “dumbed down” settings since the 3D immersion makes up for it.

I am the other way round. Somehow VR still hasn’t taken off for me.
It sure is nice but it still makes me sick (depending on what I do), I sweat profusely, can’t read my notes, can’t see what the heck the children/cat/wife are doing, and so on.
I want to love it but I am just not there yet.
TrackIR however is a must. I can live without VR but flight sims without TrackIR suck. :smiley:

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Soon I will be the same, as my eyes age I am losing distance towards being in focus. 20/20 until my mid teens and then I lost perfect focus beyond 6-8 feet.
For a while it stayed, then came down to 3-4 feet.

I just measured, my monitor starts getting fuzzy beyond 22” (without my glasses on, new prescription this year just before COVID).

So I do look forward to not needing glasses and perhaps having the display always in view, and within focal range for my eyes. Just not in the market for a $1500-$2000 (thats CAD for a 2080 series card) GPU plus a headset right now. I’ll wait for the next gen before taking the plunge.

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Why is this thread flagged as a private message?!

Re the 2080ti required; that’s bs. My lowly 1070 has done satisfactory duty for years and it was 450€ when I bought it iirc.

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Since I can chose between VR sims and non-VR sims, VR sims win, everytime. I really, really, like flightsimming in VR!
But I also enjoyed flightsimming with TrackIR and even when PoV hats and padlock was a thing.
I think I wrote the first TrackIR review for flightsims, back in the day…?

If I couldn’t do VR. If this option was removed. I would go back to TrackIR and a big widescreen. But if this happens, I hope Naturalpoint picks up on some of the tech from the VR developers. TrackIR tracking leaves a lot to be desired, compared to VR. Maybe Naturalpoint, or someone else, could do a stereo camera that could track the head movements…? I think I could do 2D head tracking again if was as smooth and precise as in VR.

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I think it was a mistake. Should be open now.

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Can you define that a bit better? Mission type, graphics quality, frame rates?

I ask because running larger missions, at Wag’s setting level (before Syria) with my 1070ti nets 40-60fps for 1080p. Now I must say that I have VSync on, as it otherwise spikes up between 80-120fps at times (look up at the sky etc.) and the drastic change between min-max feels like a time warp. I set Vsync to keep that contained (my monitor is also 60hz, would be interesting to see the results with 120hz or the a gsync setup). Vsync off the average/typical is the same at present.

I think Franze has a roughly similar (albeit slightly higher min max and average) situation with his 2070.

I think I have 'em a little lower but passable. I do prefer smaller scenarios but that’s on my old rig, new hotness might not mind having an entire war running.

I don’t use vsync but I do use maxFPS in the DCS autoexec. Does the same, but capping it costs less somehow than forcing it to vsync.

Your 1070ti should easily be able to drive a (secondhand) rift S.

Hmm I’ll try that via autoexec, forgot that route!

What are you capping it at for VR?

Rift-S is only $550 new from Amazon, might be worth a trial a bit later this year since I can’t take a proper vacation anyway. DCS staycation?

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Ahhh! Sorry. I created the wrong type. @Troll has it fixed. Nice!

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Yet, HMDs continue to improve and are brought to market. HP certainly thinks it worth the investment, as do the software publishers, like Steam and Microsoft.

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Only need to hit 40fps with rift s. Max is 80fps, but you will rarely hit that unless you have a monster system. With a 2080s you can basically run max settings and never drop below 40.

Il2 is a different story. Runs near max settings at 80fps in multiplayer.

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